Bill C-35

Canada Early Learning and Child Care Act

An Act respecting early learning and child care in Canada

This enactment sets out the Government of Canada’s vision for a Canada-wide early learning and child care system. It also sets out the Government of Canada’s commitment to maintaining long-term funding relating to early learning and child care to be provided to the provinces and Indigenous peoples. Finally, it creates the National Advisory Council on Early Learning and Child Care.

[The Chair (Mr. Robert Morrissey (Egmont, Lib.)), Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

I call the meeting to order.

I want to welcome and recognize Mr. Godin, who will be replacing Mr. Aitchison for today's meeting.

Welcome to meeting number 64 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. All the committee members are appearing in person in the room today. Nobody is appearing virtually.

To ensure an orderly meeting, before speaking, wait until I recognize you by name. You can choose to speak in the official language of your choice by using one of the headsets in the room. If there is an issue with translation, please let me know and I'll suspend while it's being corrected. As well, I want to remind members and those witnesses who may be speaking to speak slowly in order to give the interpreters the opportunity to translate.

As well, screenshots of today's meeting are not allowed. If any technical issues come up during the meeting, please get my attention and we'll suspend while they're being corrected.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Friday, February 3, 2023, the committee will continue its study of Bill C‑35, an act respecting early learning and child care in Canada.

Today we are proceeding with clause-by-clause consideration. I would like to provide members of the committee with some instructions and a few comments on how the committee will proceed with the clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C‑35.

As the name indicates, this is an examination of all the clauses in the order in which they appear in the bill. I will call each clause successively, and each clause is subject to debate and a vote. If there are amendments to the clause in question, I will recognize the member proposing the amendment, who may explain it. The amendment will then be open for debate. When no further members wish to intervene, the amendment will be voted on. Amendments will be considered in the order in which they appear in the bill or in the package each member has received from the clerk. Members should note that the amendments must be submitted in writing to the clerk of the committee.

As the chair, I will go slowly to allow all members to follow the proceedings properly. If at any time you are unsure, please, you can always call for a suspension while you get a chance to establish where we're at.

Amendments have been given an alphanumeric number in the top right corner to indicate which party submitted them. There is no need for a seconder to move an amendment. Once it is moved, you will need unanimous consent to withdraw it.

During debate on an amendment, members are permitted to move subamendments. These subamendments must be submitted in writing. They do not require the approval of the mover of the amendment. Only one subamendment may be considered at a time, and that subamendment cannot be amended. When a subamendment is moved to an amendment, it is voted on first. Then another subamendment may be moved, or the committee may consider the main amendment and vote on it.

Once every clause has been voted on, the committee will vote on the title and the bill itself. An order to reprint the bill may be required if amendments are adopted so that the House has a proper copy for use at report stage. Finally, the committee will have to order the chair to report the bill to the House. That report contains only the text of any adopted amendments as well as an indication of any deleted clauses.

I would like to welcome representatives from the Department of Employment and Social Development, who are available to answer technical questions related to the bill: Michelle Lattimore, director general, federal secretariat on early learning and child care; Cheri Reddin, director general, indigenous early learning and child care; Jill Henry, director, policy, indigenous early learning; Kelly Nares, director, federal secretariat on early learning; and Christian Paradis, director, federal secretariat on early learning and child care.

Again, welcome to the committee.

We will now proceed with clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C‑35, which you have before you.

My understanding is that there are no amendments to clauses 2 through 4.

(Clauses 2 to 4 inclusive agreed to)

(On clause 5)

I understand that there is an amendment on clause 5.

Mr. Godin.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

That's perfect. The YMCA is currently the largest provider of non-profit, licensed child care. In your brief you mentioned that it's critical for Bill C-35 to prioritize non-profit care. Do you agree that the federal investment should focus on an expansion of public and non-profit child care services, rather than those that are private and for-profit? If so, why?

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

As well, the YMCA submission talks about how the language in Bill C-35 should be strengthened to better recognize the federal government's role in supporting early childhood educators.

Would you support amending the bill so that it clearly commits to supporting decent working conditions, livable wages and benefits as one of the principles guiding federal investments in the system?

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much. I couldn't agree with you more.

Madam Cicek, I'm a huge fan of YMCAs across the country. I am blessed to have one in my riding, in fact, with an early childhood education centre right in it.

The YMCA Canada submission in regard to Bill C-35 states, “Without a dedicated pipeline of new ECEs, Canada will not be able to meet the demand or fulfill the expansion goals within the agreements.”

Expanding on the question I just asked, how significant do you believe low wages, insecure working conditions and inadequate benefits are in contributing to the child care workforce crisis?

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses here today for our study of Bill C-35. All the testimony we heard today was moving. Ms. Harim's was was also very touching and personal.

I'm now addressing all the witnesses. We talked about the support some families need, about problems related to labour and attrition, various needs, problems in terms of potential quality, and available spaces in child care centres. I want to remind you that Quebec is a model for child care services. With all that in mind, what would be the most important thing to add to the bill?

[Sibel Cicek, Director, Government Relations, YMCA of Greater Toronto]

Good morning. Thank you for the opportunity to join you here today. I'm Sibel Cicek, and I'm here representing the YMCA of Greater Toronto.

The YMCA of Greater Toronto has more than 300 child care program locations serving children ages 0 to 12 and their families. We're also part of an Ontario network and a network across Canada. Together, YMCAs have 88,000 licensed child care spaces, making us the largest providers of non-profit licensed care across the country.

Our 55 years of experience in child care have taught us that accessible, affordable, inclusive and high-quality child care is essential to healthy child development, positive family outcomes, the participation of women in the workforce, and the strength of our economy. That's why we proudly signed on to the Canada-wide early learning and child care plan. It's also why we fully support the passage of Bill C-35.

I have three key points I want to touch on today. First is the need for consistent and predictable funding. Second is the need to support and compensate our workforce fairly. Third is the need to ensure equity and inclusion as we roll out the plan.

To begin, with funding, we are really pleased to see a commitment to sustained and ongoing child care funding at the federal level in this bill. Our recommendation is that funding be explicitly described as annualized and tied to the licensed, regulated system of child care. We also welcome mechanisms for ensuring that child care funding provided to operators reflects their true costs.

YMCAs, like other operators, are experiencing challenges with shortfalls as a result of frozen fees, the impact of inflation and inconsistent approaches across the country. This makes it difficult to forecast and plan. We know there will be bumps in the road—we're certainly feeling them—and we welcome additional foresight to ensure operators remain financially stable so that we can sustain our current operations and, in fact, also think about expanding and improving the quality of the programs we're delivering.

Second, when it comes to the workforce, I would also echo what I think you've heard here today; early childhood educators are the backbone of our child care system. We need to ensure that they are well-trained and fairly compensated for the valuable work they do. The CWELCC system will not succeed without them.

As fees for child care go down, demand is going up, and it's going up fast. In Ontario alone, the province estimates that we will be short 8,500 ECEs at the time of full implementation. Our own modelling at the YMCA indicates that we will need almost 3,500 ECEs to expand our capacity by just 20%.

Frankly, it's not just expansion that's an issue. The workforce shortage of ECEs is in fact challenging our current everyday operations. We currently have 420 vacancies for our ECE positions open in Ontario, which challenges our ability to keep our current programs stable. Without a dedicated pipeline, we can't meet current demand, let alone fulfill the expansion goals of our agreement.

We urge the federal government to work together with our provinces and territories to formalize a consistent wage grid that compensates ECEs fairly and ensures that the system can effectively recruit and retain them.

Number three is equity and inclusion. When it comes to equity in the system, we also want to ensure that safeguards are in place. If we fail to expand the new child care system in an equitable manner, the families that currently have child care spaces will be the only ones that can access the benefits. This means that families that could not afford licensed child care before CWELCC will still be prevented from accessing the program, because they will simply not be able to find an available space.

We also have much work ahead to ensure that children with special needs can be supported and included in the program. This will require more resources for staffing and support.

We urge the federal government to work together with provinces and territories to ensure that all decisions related to expansion going forward are made with an equity and inclusion lens.

Finally, if I may add one additional point, it's our need to support our six- to 12-year-olds. Anyone with kids will tell you that learning and development does not stop at age six and that families continue to need support managing the high cost of before- and after-school care for their older children as well. Although this is outside the scope of this bill, we would love to see more attention on this important age group, so that older children can have the same access to affordable high-quality care as their younger siblings.

To close, I want to reiterate that the YMCA supports Bill C-35 and continues to be a committed partner in realizing the Canada-wide early learning and child care plan. We support the establishment of a national advisory council, and we welcome ongoing formal and informal opportunities to continue to consult with all levels of government to ensure our continued success going forward.

Thank you.

[Jennifer Ratcliffe, Director, Pebble Lane Early Learning]

Good morning.

My name is Jennifer Ratcliffe. I am the director and owner of Pebble Lane child care, a private child care facility that operates care programs in British Columbia. I have been in the care industry for 20 years and have experienced working with not-for-profits, the Surrey school board and various other child care organizations.

I come before you today as a witness to Bill C-35 an act respecting early learning and child care in Canada. Thank you to the members of this committee for giving me the opportunity to be here.

The pandemic showed us a child care crisis like never before. We saw how quickly a lack of available child care spaces can affect our country. This experience led to the creation of a national funding program and the realization that without adequate child care, people cannot work, pay bills, buy food and ultimately live. If the child care industry stops, even for one week, it becomes a national emergency.

A large majority of families live paycheque to paycheque, and a few weeks without being able to access child care leads very quickly to social and economic issues. A national funding program is exactly what our industry needs to support families and children. I believe our future lies in the strength of the generations that come after us, and it is our job to pave the way.

The delivery of the funding program is key. There are four major concerns that this program must address correctly in order to ensure long-term success. Each of these concerns is linked, and they affect one another. They are funding and inclusion, affordability, accessibility, and qualified and suitable staff. Funding programs must include all types of care, working toward one common goal.

I ask that the wording in proposed paragraph 7(1)(a) include “all licensed types of care”. All licensed child care spaces are required to follow the same regulations and uphold the same quality standards, regardless of business model. This allows quality standards to be consistent.

Currently, the CWELCC excludes disbursement funding that is used to hire support staff. Without this funding available, we have to turn away children who require additional support in our programs. This must also change, so that we can meet the needs of all children.

Recently, increases to funding have been made to reduce the cost to parents. However, the delivery of this funding has been extremely complicated. The approval process takes months, and there is little to no support or communication to answer questions. Providers are subsidizing the government and going into debt to discount their parent fees while they wait for funding. Operators feel as though they are taken for granted.

The pressure to implement this program so quickly has resulted in overpayments to providers, families double-dipping, and funding methods being overlapped. Parents are stressed and providers feel like they have no help. It is clear that the provinces are scrambling as they try to prove they can do this, but they are ultimately failing. You cannot simply throw money at a problem and expect it to change.

Wait-lists across the country are growing by the thousands each month, and families are left with no one to help them. Parents need to work and if they don't have care, their only option is social assistance. This doesn't seem right. Affordable child care is an empty promise to parents if it is not accessible.

Providers are doing everything they can to accept as many families as possible, but there are simply not enough spaces. Demand is increasing at a level that we have not seen in years. New spaces must be created in order to meet demand. Private operators need to be able to expand, but being excluded from funding for new spaces means they cannot afford to. The fee caps mean we are restricted when negotiating leases and working out operating expenses.

I have written to our government in B.C. many times, asking for help and guidance. I have never received a response.

We need our governments to support us. We need access to new spaces funding and funds to develop quality programs for the families we serve. Funding needs to be consistent, and the application process needs to be more straightforward to allow the creation of new spaces.

The vast majority of child care centres in our country are built from a lifelong commitment to caring for families and children. The women who create these facilities from the ground up have a passion and drive like no other, and they deserve recognition.

If you want a successful child care program, there needs to be drive, inspiration and passion. The work we do with children is very specific and cannot be replaced with a one-size-fits-all approach. A national child care program must be inclusive. There is simply too much demand to do it any other way if it is to be successful.

We need to work together to create quality licensed facilities and step away from the titles that separate us. Our country's core values are built on supporting others and ensuring equality. This funding program should be nothing less.

Thank you.

[Maryam Harim, Director, Tiny Hoppers Early Learning Centre]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of Parliament. Good morning.

My name is Maryam Harim. I thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak to Bill C-35. I am a registered early childhood educator who is currently working as the director at Tiny Hoppers, Newmarket South. I was an immigrant who came to Canada 30 years ago, and I started my career as an educator by volunteering at a child care centre.

Today, I stand here in front of you as a woman who raised her three children single-handedly, while working full-time in child care and going to night school. Back to 29 years ago, I was on a wait-list for subsidized child care for my first child. After my maternity leave ended, I was paying through the nose for child care. All the money I made at that time went to child care.

I had my second and third, and I was then approved for a subsidy. All the money was going straight to child care fees. I was on the wait-list, and I kept waiting until my third one was born.

It was a lot of pressure on a single mom, especially when all of my money was going toward child care, food and shelter, leaving aside any extracurricular activities that I wanted to send my children to, like ballet lessons, karate, basketball and swimming lessons.

Bill C-35 is a universal child care bill that is made to be flexible and accessible to all families of young children. I'm really grateful to whoever finally brought this across, because I'm happy that.... Yes, I suffered as a young woman back then, but my children won't. These families, whom I have been taking care of for the last 30 years, are not going to be suffering. They will actually benefit, because children need the kind of care that we've been giving, and they deserve it. They do not deserve to get through it with a second mortgage because they can't afford it.

I've been there and done that, and I'm really happy. It brings tears to my eyes when I look back at my years, but I'm extremely happy for what has gone through.

The idea is to give children the respect and care they deserve in child care in Canada. This is not a winning or losing game. We are all here, collectively, to advocate for the little lives and the future of Canada. As child care workers, we are committed to and focused on the well-being of the children in our care.

As a parent, it has made me very happy for my own children that they won't have to suffer the way I did back then in my days. They won't have to take out a second mortgage to be able to send their children to day care.

However, as an educator, adviser and director at Tiny Hoppers in Newmarket South, I am concerned. Will the government continue to support us forever? I am all in for Bill C-35, as long as the teacher-to-child ratios do not change and we provide the same quality care that we have been giving for the last so many years.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Welcome back.

The committee will resume its study of Bill C-35, an act respecting early learning and child care in Canada. To assist the interpreters, I remind all members and those appearing virtually to please introduce yourselves when speaking and to speak slowly so the interpreter has the ability to fully grasp what you're saying and interpret it.

You can choose to speak in the official language of your choice. Interpretation services are available. For virtual participants, use the translation icon at the bottom of your Surface. If there is an issue with translation, please get my attention and we will suspend while it is being corrected.

Please address all comments through me, the chair, to ensure an orderly meeting, and wait until I recognize you. Also, please, no screenshots or camera shots are allowed in the room while the meeting is proceeding.

I would like to welcome our witnesses to begin our discussion with five minutes of opening remarks. We have Jennifer Ratcliffe, director of Pebble Lane Early Learning; Maryam Harim, director, Tiny Hoppers Early Learning Centre; and Sibel Cicek, director of government relations, YMCA of Greater Toronto.

We will start with Ms. Harim for five minutes, please. You have the floor.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much.

My first question is for Monsieur Lacasse.

You spoke about the importance of self-determination in regard to children, and I actually could not agree more. In particular, with the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, we know that the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples is mentioned 15 times. Central to that is self-determination.

I share that with you because I think that on matters related to children it's critical that indigenous people have free, prior and informed consent, particularly because of history, but also because of ongoing issues around having self-determination over our children. In fact, we just had a case in Manitoba that ended up on the news yesterday.

In your submission, you said that Bill C-35 could be improved by recognizing the right to self-determination of indigenous people and how it should contribute to the implementation of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People by affirming first nations jurisdiction over child care services.

The NDP is putting forward an amendment to strengthen the bill: that under clause 6 it be amended so that it's “programs and services that are culturally appropriate, that are led by indigenous people and that respect the right of indigenous people to free, prior and informed consent in matters relating to children.”

Do you think that's an important amendment?

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like the to thank the witnesses for being here. Bill C-35 is very important for our children.

Mr. Lacasse, I enjoyed your fine presentation on first nations, the Inuit and the Métis. I'd like to know what the current relationship is between Quebec's ministère de la Famille and the communities. In addition, what sort of agreement is there on the delegation of powers between the First Nations of Quebec and Labrador Health and Social Services Commission and the ministère de la Famille?

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

That will deeply impact our rural communities.

One of the things that's really interesting in the brief you submitted to the committee is that you said, “All public, not for profit and private licensed providers are bound by the same provincial licensing standards, yet Bill C-35 discriminates against private licensed providers and the families that rely on them.”

You spoke a lot about discrimination in this bill, intended or unintended. Can you expand on the discrimination you see and the quickest way to fix that?

I don't mean to rush you, but I have only a certain amount of time.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all of our witnesses for being here today to discuss Bill C-35, a valuable conversation to ensure we are helping as many Canadian families as possible and putting the child first, at the nucleus of this discussion.

I'll start with you, Mr. Mitchell.

One of the things you said is a major concern to a lot of parents who are experiencing this. It is that currently only a third of all children have spaces. In the data you've provided, you are predicting that will get worse.

Do you have the research on the numbers that the wait-lists are expected to grow to?

[Patrice Lacasse, Manager, Early Childhood Services, First Nations of Quebec and Labrador Health and Social Services Commission]

Good morning, everyone. I'd like to thank the committee chair and members for having invited us to come and speak about the realities of indigenous first nations.

I acknowledge that we are in Wendat territory. In fact the commission's offices are located in the community of Wendake. As for me, I'm an Innu from the community of Uashat Mak Mani-utenam.

I represent the First Nations of Quebec and Labrador Health and Social Services Commission. The organization's mission is to help the communities meet their health, well-being, cultural and self-determination objectives. The commission is covers several sectors, including health and social services, research, social development, and child care. Needless to say, all these sectors contribute to the well-being of children. The commission was established in 1994 by the Assembly of First Nations Quebec-Labrador. This body gives it mandates, whether for the secretariat or policy matters. The commission also receives mandates from its board of directors, whose members are the directors of health and social services in the various communities.

With respect to Bill C-35, the main recommendation in the brief submitted last month was about developing a distinct act for indigenous early learning and child care. In this presentation, we will discuss elements that could considerably improve what has been put forward in Bill C-35. The goal is to better address the specific needs and realities of the communities. Even though the bill recognizes the needs and realities of each community, we feel that these are underestimated, whether in terms of access to services, geographical realities or the importance of language and culture.

As for indigenous self-determination, one of the basic principles is the decision-making authority of the first nations. This authority should rest with the first nations. Employment and Social Development Canada's indigenous early learning and child care programs, IELCCs, affirm the right to self-determination and the right to control, conceive, execute and administer an IELCC system that reflects our needs, priorities and aspirations.

There is nevertheless a paradox. The former Bill C-92, An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and families, acknowledged the jurisdiction of first nations and indigenous people with respect to child services. We are therefore asking why Bill C-35 or some other act specifically for indigenous people, might not acknowledge this jurisdiction. Canada also recognizes the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples and has been working to implement it in its statutes. The government acknowledges the self-determination principle in the IELCC programs. However, the jurisdiction of the first nations and the Inuit over child care is required to implement these programs as effectively as possible. These powers need to be restored to the first nations.

For the implementation of the IELCC programs, the communities recently distanced themselves from the usual methods. Indeed, it was only last year that the organization signed an agreement with Employment and Social Development Canada. In order to show consideration for the powers of the communities, we recommend local coordination and mobilization. Early childhood is everybody's business, and not the preserve of a single sector. We would like to promote decompartmentalization. We have been straitjacketed for too long by certain programs. We would therefore like a development plan based not only on conditions, but also needs. The idea is to make sure that the measures introduced are aligned with children's needs, and also their environment, by which we mean the family and the community.

I'll stop there, because I've run out of speaking time.

[Beth Deazeley, Registrar and Chief Executive Officer, College of Early Childhood Educators]

Thank you. Good morning.

As the registrar and CEO of the Ontario College of Early Childhood Educators, I'm honoured to join today's panel and to provide our insights on the proposed legislation.

Our college is responsible for regulating the profession of early childhood education in Ontario, with a mandate to establish registration requirements, ethical standards, requirements for continuous professional learning, and a complaints process to ensure that the interests of children and families are prioritized and protected. Our work also includes maintaining a comprehensive public register of our members. This scope of regulatory activity is unique, and it does not currently occur in any other jurisdiction in Canada.

In recent years, we've helped raise the profession's standards by implementing a mandatory sexual abuse prevention program for educators, by providing guidance on the inclusion of children with disabilities, and by recognizing that acts of racism and discrimination by educators constitute professional misconduct.

Our membership data report shows over 60,000 early childhood educators currently in Ontario, with nearly an additional 30,000 registered at one time during the past 15 years, but who have now left the profession. This kind of data is valuable when considering workforce challenges, and isn't collected by any other organization.

While we acknowledge the importance of all the principles in Bill C-35, we wish to emphasize that measures intended to support the affordability and expansion of child care spaces should not compromise the quality of early learning in child care. We believe it's vital to safeguard against policy solutions that may focus on increasing access in the short term but exacerbate longer-term systemic problems that impact quality.

While there's no universally accepted definition of quality, what research has demonstrated is that qualified and well-supported educators are the most significant contributors to early years programs, resulting in better outcomes for children and families.

We're concerned that the proposed legislation does not sufficiently reflect the importance of ensuring a qualified and well-supported workforce. The concept of professional educators includes not just minimum standards of qualification but also an ongoing obligation to practice in accordance with standards, to put the interests of children and families first, and to continue development opportunities throughout a professional's career.

Our first request is for the inclusion in the legislation of a fifth guiding principle that clearly articulates the need for a workforce composed of qualified, professional, well-supported educators. This would help to ensure that funding and policy initiatives focus on supporting and developing the workforce.

Ontario, like many other provinces, is facing a workforce crisis in child care. While high numbers of educators enter the field each year, people leave at nearly the same rate. To address this, it's necessary to focus first on retention by addressing systemic issues—including working conditions, program resourcing, compensation and lack of opportunities for professional growth, which are contributing to attrition—rather than overemphasizing mechanisms to increase recruitment of new educators.

Our second request is for the opportunity to participate in the work of the national advisory council. As a unique organization with data-informed insights about the profession, the college's inclusion on the advisory council would help to maintain standards for professional educators, ensure that data inform decisions, prioritize the public interest and help maintain quality in the Canada-wide early learning and child care program as it's implemented across jurisdictions.

Thank you for the opportunity to join you today to provide our perspective. We look forward to collaborating on this critical work, and I'm happy to answer any questions from the committee.