Thank you.
Evidence of meeting #7 for Afghanistan in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was taliban.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #7 for Afghanistan in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was taliban.
A video is available from Parliament.
8:15 p.m.
Former Chairperson, Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission, As an Individual
I think young women are more at risk—that is very clear—and the minority groups, which are facing challenges and attacks every day.
8:15 p.m.
Journalist, As an Individual
I could tell the same story. It began in August. You'd be getting a hundred requests a day. That went on all the way to October. People were asking, begging. You'd be working with journalists for human rights, working with the military people, trying to get people out.
It is simply not good enough. We can do better than this. The idea of.... Let them get here, or even get to a lily-pad country, and sort out the biometrics later. That's a better way to proceed, but I still say that we need to go to IRCC and find out what's wrong. Something's wrong.
I have all their documents. I have all these letters. It's just not acceptable.
8:15 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Well, part of the problem, as I understand it, is this. People send in to the special number or email that the government has provided to them, and unless you fall into the categories of what the government wants to target, you won't actually get a response. Even in cases of human rights advocates and activists, they are not getting a response.
We just heard from a previous panel about two families that I'm trying to assist. I've sent letters to both the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the Minister of Immigration. I have not gotten a response.
So here's the problem: The government is not responding to these individuals. They're not getting a file number. Sometimes you get a response that says, “I can't help you with those families, because there are no file numbers.” Well, they can't get a file number because IRCC won't respond to them. We're walking around in a giant circle, getting nowhere.
Maybe I can start with you, Ms. Armstrong. Is that the problem that you're experiencing?
8:20 p.m.
Journalist, As an Individual
You know, I don't like knocking my.... I'm very proud of this country. This does not make me proud. Why don't we fix the problem? It's wrong. We need to fix it.
8:20 p.m.
Associate Women’s Rights Director, Human Rights Watch
I don't know the details around how the Canadian system works, but I want to say that there's something extremely arbitrary about who got out and who didn't.
As Dr. Samar said, many high-profile human rights activists are still trapped in the country. It's just because they decided not to go to the airport in late August, or they tried to go to the airport and they couldn't get into the airport. They thought, “Let me give it a bit of time and see what happens.” They thought, “I'm safer hiding in my house. I'll try to go in a few weeks.”
We now know that for many people, that was the only opportunity, and they missed it—
8:20 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Ms. Barr, I'm sorry. I'm going to interject here. I have only 30 seconds left. I want to ask you a very direct question, because you're in Pakistan right now.
The government says that people should get to a third country, but people can't get out of Afghanistan to Pakistan. What if the government actually had resources available in Pakistan to help Afghans get out to Pakistan? Would that be an option?
8:20 p.m.
Associate Women’s Rights Director, Human Rights Watch
There's definitely a need for much more support here. That would have to be negotiated with the Pakistan government, which might be challenging, but it's certainly worth a try.
8:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal
Thank you, Ms. Kwan.
Without wasting any more time, we will go to Mr. Redekopp for three minutes, and Ms. Damoff for three minutes. Then we will go to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for a minute and a half, and Ms. Kwan for a minute and a half.
Go ahead, please, Mr. Redekopp.
8:20 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
Thank you, Chair.
You know, even though we're far away from it here in Canada, MPs get drawn into this too. I have an example of a letter I received, which I will read: “Please save my life and my family. We are in a bad mental and physical condition and I live in a secret place in a bad security situation. House-to-house searches have begun in different parts of Afghanistan, and it is possible for us to be captured and killed by the terrorist Taliban at any moment. I sent an email to your country's immigration office. Only one email came in and no other confirmation email came to reassure me and my family. Please, please, please, save me and my family.” That was sent directly to me.
Ms. Armstrong and Ms. Barr, you both gave some examples similar to this. This is not an uncommon situation, from what I can see.
Ms. Armstrong, you were quoted as saying, “I am not one who likes to criticize my government.” You actually just mentioned that. You said, “I think governing is a hard job and they're in the business of trying to please most of the people all of the time and that's very tough to do. But what happened here was a neglect of duty.”
I'm just wondering if you could comment a bit more on that. How much of what we're seeing here is created by the Taliban versus a neglect of duty? What are your thoughts on that?
8:20 p.m.
Journalist, As an Individual
The Taliban are not going to help you solve this problem. Training them, teaching them, scaring them to death or promising them something isn't going to do it. We know how to fix this problem. As all of us have told you, and the same letter that you just read, it's the incomplete communication; it's leaving people hanging; it's having people write to us and say, “What's wrong with me? How come you're not...?”
We all know of a very delicate case, and I won't go into detail, about underage girls we were trying to move out. It took Canada three months to get the paperwork done—just enough time for the story to spread around and those girls to get caught by the Taliban.
This is not acceptable for our country. We know how to do this well. Instead of just blaming IRCC, we have to go in there and fix it. This is not acceptable for Canada.
8:20 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
I have another question related to that.
One of the things I've heard from different people is that there is a risk that if we bring in people from Afghanistan too quickly, we might get some terrorists in Canada. That's a fear that people in Canada have. Can you comment on that, please?
8:20 p.m.
Journalist, As an Individual
You could say that with every single refugee program we've ever instigated. The terrorists are running Afghanistan; they're not trying to come here. I think that is a very poor and weak and wrong conclusion to draw in the face of vulnerable people who need us to help them. I'm very sorry to hear that, and I've heard it many times.
8:25 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
I agree with you, and I'm glad to hear you say that. That would be my feeling as well.
8:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal
Thank you, Mr. Redekopp. You're right on time.
Now we'll go to Ms. Damoff for three minutes.
Please go ahead.
March 28th, 2022 / 8:25 p.m.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
Thank you, Chair.
To all our witnesses, thank you for everything you've been doing.
Ms. Armstrong, Ms. Barr said that we should resettle those who can't live safely in Afghanistan, except that we know that all of the women and girls can't live safely in Afghanistan, and we can't resettle every single woman and girl in Afghanistan right now. You've been working on the ground through the repression of women's rights, going full circle to being able to see women go to school and be members of Parliament, and now we're going backwards, which must be devastating for you.
What specific options does Canada have to improve the lives of those women and girls who can't flee the country? Women can't even leave right now if they're not accompanied by a man, so it wouldn't matter what we did at Immigration. How can we support those women and girls who are left in Afghanistan right now?
8:25 p.m.
Journalist, As an Individual
There are all kinds of programs already happening. Canadian Women for Women in Afghanistan has been at work setting up online education. A lot of that is going on, just exactly as I remember Dr. Sima Samar keeping her schools open while the Taliban threatened to kill her throughout their first ruling.
There are things we can do. We can get an online program going. There are ways people have found to get funds to people. It's not enough. It's a band-aid. The other thing we need to do is figure out.... You can't take everyone out of the country, and you can't rebuild the country if you take all the best people out. I'm thinking of your panellist, Dr. Sima Samar. How can we work to get them back in, to force the Taliban...? Without them, we're not going to go anywhere.
We have to help the people inside while we get the really vulnerable ones out. Again, we know how to do things like that. We have people, many of them on your committee, who can sit down and say, “We need a better plan. We know how to do it.” If Canadian Women for Women in Afghanistan can keep going throughout this ghastly time, then surely we can find other ways.
8:25 p.m.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
Do these women have access to the Internet in Afghanistan?