Afghanistan Committee on April 11th, 2022

[Ghulam Faizi]

For example, at the beginning we explained to the IRCC that some of our families have Afghan passports, but some don't; and some have birth certificates, but some don't, because we didn't think that the Government of Afghanistan would fall.

They said, “You guys do not need passports,” and then at the last meeting, after the hunger strike we had at Parliament Hill, they told us, “If you guys can, you guys should get passports. Without a passport to travel to Pakistan or any other country, it will be difficult for us to get you out of there.”

We told them that you, the IRCC, promised us and promised the public that if a case number or an applicant made it to a third country, they should then contact IRCC, which would then help to take them out of that country. If you go to the Taliban and ask for a family passport, the first question they ask you is, “Why do you need a passport for every single member of your family? Who did you work for? Did you have a relationship with any foreign NATO members?” They start targeting and investigating you.

This is one of the examples.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Mr. Shoaib, you mentioned that there have been a lot of unanswered questions. Could you elaborate a little bit more on what those unanswered questions were?

[Ahmad Shoaib]

First of all, we keep asking for UCI numbers, and they are saying, “We'll get back to you.” At the last meeting, they told us before the end of May that we would receive our answers or UCIs, or the applications would be returned, whatever the case may be—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much, Mr. Hallan. Your six minutes is up.

I just want to remind the honourable members and the witnesses that I would appreciate it if you could talk through the chair, but I'm a bit lenient this way. I don't mind as long as the person who is asked the question is the only one who answers. I appreciate that.

Now, I will go to honourable member Pam Damoff, please, for six minutes.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you so much, Chair.

To our witnesses here today, I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for your service to Canada. We could not have done what we did in Afghanistan without your service, and so I want to recognize that.

I was born and raised in Canada. All my family is here with me. I cannot imagine the heartbreak and uncertainty you're going through right now. I'm not even going to pretend to understand that because I can't begin to know the heartbreak you are feeling.

Mr. Faizi, you mentioned that not all of your family could afford to get to Pakistan. I had a question about that because we've had previous witnesses talk about the challenges of actually leaving Afghanistan and getting into Pakistan. I wonder if you could clarify this. Is it strictly a financial issue, or are there issues with the Pakistani government and requirements to actually get into Pakistan? I'm trying to clarify what we can do to support those people to get to Pakistan.

[Ghulam Faizi]

Thank you.

There are three sides to this question. I can explain. First of all, yes it is a financial problem, as well as the documents required by Pakistan. For example, to go to Pakistan, you need to get a Pakistani visa in Afghanistan.

First of all, you have to have an Afghan passport, which is required if you want to apply for a Pakistani visa. If you want to apply for a Pakistani visa, it's not a usual or a normal procedure anymore. You have to hire somebody, a third person, to buy you a Pakistani visa. One Pakistani visa can cost you from $300 to $900 per person, which is a lot of money.

The third problem is when we cross into Pakistan. We've been asking IRCC about 10 to 12 families already there in Islamabad. We provided a total list to the IRCC, whom we speak to weekly. Those family members are already in Pakistan. Their Pakistani visas are about to expire, and they have to return to Afghanistan.

IRCC's answer is, “No, you don't have to return to Afghanistan, but we will try to get you accommodation with IOM.” It's been almost two to three months, and they did not provide our families with a single accommodation. There are multiple problems in going to Pakistan.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I believe Mr. Khan was talking about the passport issue. The passport is actually needed to get into Pakistan. The Canadian government doesn't require a passport to come to Canada. If you were able to come directly here, you wouldn't need it. It's to get into the third country, right?

[Ghulam Faizi]

That is where we asked the IRCC to provide borrowed passes, or talk to the Pakistani delegation. They provided borrowed passes in the past, and in that case we do not need a passport. We can travel to Pakistan with borrowed passes.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

That's out of our hands though, right? We can try talking to Pakistan, but if they choose not to offer that documentation, we're relying on other governments to get your families to Canada, which I think is what we all want to do. I'm trying to narrow in on what Canada can do directly that doesn't involve getting other countries....

Do you know if any of your family has been able to get to any countries other than Canada?

[Ghulam Faizi]

Only a couple in my family were able to travel to Pakistan. They're still stuck in Afghanistan, constantly changing their location.

You mentioned that this is out of your hands. IRCC also kept making this point. How about the UCI and G numbers that are in the hands of IRCC?

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

One hundred per cent.

[Ghulam Faizi]

If they only assigned one case number per day, at least we would have five case numbers at the end of the week.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Yes.

Mr. Khan, you said zero family members have arrived in Canada. Is that your family, or is that for all of the Afghan interpreters? I just want to clarify that.

[Hameed Khan]

Thank you.

No, the zero is out of the 5,000 spaces that are reserved for the foreign interpreters' families. Zero is the number of families who have made it to Canada so far, as well as people who received visas or anything like that.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

These are extended family members, correct? We've broadened the program, I believe, so that it's extended the family; it's not just immediate family.

[Hameed Khan]

In some cases, there are also the spouses as well as the kids who are included, but IRCC asked us to keep it strictly to the siblings and the parents only.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Okay, but that's not always the case if you're trying to bring family into Canada.

Well, we certainly have some work to do.

My time is almost up, Chair. I have 15 seconds left.

I will just end by saying to the witnesses, we hear you. We'll be doing a report at this committee, and again I thank you profusely for your service to the country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much, Madam Damoff.

Now, we will proceed to my friend from the Bloc, honourable member Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe. Please go ahead for six minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Faizi, Mr. Khan and Mr. Shoaib, thank you for your service to Canada. As my colleague said earlier, we can't imagine what you have been through. However, we can stand in solidarity. That is exactly why you are here today at this important meeting. I'm going to ask you some sensitive questions and I will try to do it quickly. You may answer in any order you wish.

We have seen IRCC's response to the current crisis in Ukraine. Some were exempted from providing biometrics because they were considered to be in low-risk groups. Minister Alghabra is developing an air gateway of chartered flights to pick up Ukrainian refugees fleeing the war.

I don't want to downplay the importance of what the Ukrainians are going through, because my heart goes out to them.

However, I'd like to hear what the three of you have to say about this. How do you think IRCC's response to the current crisis in Ukraine compares to its response to the crisis in Afghanistan?

[Hameed Khan]

This is one of the great questions that we have answered, and we have told IRCC the same thing. As Afghans, as victims of the Soviet invasion, we feel for the Ukrainian people, but at the same time, our expectation from the Canadian government is that we are not some people who are coming from outside of Canada.

We're taxpaying Canadian citizens. We're voting Canadian citizens. We're contributing to all parts of the society. We're allies. We worked on the front lines with the Canadian soldiers. We lost people. We have people who lost their limbs. We have people who suffer from lifelong trauma.

When you think of our families and compare that to how Canada responded to other countries and other immigration evacuation plans, it's shameful the way we have been treated. We're very disappointed. The whole group of former Canadian interpreters and their families is very disappointed by the way we have been dealt with, especially by the IRCC, especially with the fake promises, especially with the lack of substance, as well as not walking the talk with all of the promises.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Do you feel that some of the measures put in place for the Ukrainian refugees have also been taken for Afghans who are still stuck in Afghanistan?

[Hameed Khan]

Thank you.

Indeed, it should have been. That's also what we requested from IRCC in the beginning as well, that these are some of the facilitations, some of the...including bringing people into Pakistan or another third country, as well as bringing people into Canada right away as they have done with Ukrainians.

One thing that the IRCC claims, which I want to refute right here, is that because of national security, because of us.... Mr. Hallan mentioned earlier how the comments the minister made were despicable because we have some of the highest security backgrounds. We shared compounds, compartments, rooms and dining tables with the Canadian soldiers, as well as with the Canadian civilian mission, senators and members of Parliament who were in Kandahar, Afghanistan.

All our data has been with the Department of National Defence for the last 10 years. All of our families who are in Canada came in through the 2009 to 2012 process, so there's no way to say that they don't have information on our families or they don't trust our families. Imagine giving your life, fighting for the same values that Canada believes in. We fought for the same values, and now to told that our families are a risk and they can't do the same thing for our families.... There are 14 or 15 different forms of requirements. For the Ukrainians they avoided most of the paperwork, which makes travelling into Canada way easier. In the last seven months, only 10,000 Afghans have made it to Canada, and not from Afghanistan. The majority came from other spots, but in the case of the Ukrainians so far, you know better than I do the number of Ukrainians who have been brought to Canada in only the last six to eight weeks.

Our demand from IRCC, from the Canadian government, is to treat us fairly. We're also human. We also bleed. We fought with you. We were your allies.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

What you're saying is that it would be a good idea to introduce an emergency immigration mechanism outright in the event of a conflict like the one in Ukraine or the one in Afghanistan. This mechanism should be multistage, it should treat everyone fairly and it should not be conflict-specific. That's what you are telling us, basically, and it's important that the committee take note of that so we can include it in our report.

I'd now like to give Mr. Faizi a chance to speak.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe. Your time is up, but I'll give 15 seconds to Mr. Faizi so he can say something.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.