Evidence of meeting #15 for Special Committee on the Canadian Mission in Afghanistan in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was detainees.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Thank you very much.
I'm interested in what you did, and you talked a little bit about it. Other than telling somebody in a report, some of which you were the author of, some of which you were co-author of, some of which you were a contributor to, many of which went to 76 addressees and covered many topics, not just one, did you ever go to the Afghans and talk with them about what was perceived or what was alleged?
You did say you didn't pay as much attention as you should have, that there was a war going on, and you didn't follow up on things--all of which is understandable, because there was a war going on. Likewise for General Gauthier, for whatever anybody might say about getting along with each other, there's a war going on.
Did you ever do anything to actually follow up on those things in theatre? I sense a bit of regret in your testimony that perhaps you should have done more. Did you ever follow up on any of that?
4:35 p.m.
First Secretary, Embassy of Canada to the United States of America
I did. It was a little bit later, so it was more early 2007.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
But not at the time. Is it fair to say that improvements were made in mid-2007 with the improved agreement, and that things have been better since? You weren't there, I understand, but....
4:35 p.m.
First Secretary, Embassy of Canada to the United States of America
Yes. I mean, there are still some issues that weren't quite fixed. It was in a sense of acquiring knowledge, so it took me a while to really understand the nature of our detainee system.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
It takes anybody time to acquire knowledge in that situation, I agree.
I'll pass it to my colleague.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
Mr. Colvin, you'll forgive me if I'm a little bit querulous. Out of 5,000 Canadians who have travelled through there, at least in that period of time, you are the one single person who is coming forward with this information, so you'll forgive me if I'm skeptical.
For example, you testified today that when you drove away after the interrogation of those four prisoners, you saw them laughing, holding hands, and walking back with their captors to their cells. I find that quite astounding. Would I be going back to a cell with the people who had just finished punishing me? I don't understand that.
4:35 p.m.
First Secretary, Embassy of Canada to the United States of America
I think the answer is that these people had been detained in Kandahar. They had been, according to their information, their allegations, tortured in Kandahar, but then had been transferred to Kabul. They seemed confused, didn't really seem to know what they were doing there, either. Some of these people just get caught up, and if they don't have money to buy their way out, they're just kind of stuck in the jail system. So I think the NDS also felt these were probably people who shouldn't have been detained in the first place. That was my conclusion.
The people we met just seemed confused and didn't know why they were there, and their jailers treated them the same way.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
I apologize that I have trouble with the credibility of that.
Are you fluent in Pashtun?
4:35 p.m.
First Secretary, Embassy of Canada to the United States of America
No, I don't speak any Pashtun.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
So then the testimony you received from these prisoners was through an interpreter--
4:35 p.m.
First Secretary, Embassy of Canada to the United States of America
That's correct.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
--who may or may not have had his or her own motive for what they were interpreting for you.
4:35 p.m.
First Secretary, Embassy of Canada to the United States of America
We used someone from the embassy who had actually been jailed in that same jail under the Taliban. In the testimony there was a lot of body language, and the body language accorded with the interpretation. We've used this guy before. He's a reliable interpreter.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
Can you see how I could arrive at a conclusion that you're an honourable gentleman who came to a conclusion that may not be correct?
Thank you.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rick Casson
Okay, thank you. There's just one minute left. Maybe I'll use it.
We're at a crossroads here. Mr. Colvin, I know that it was previously indicated that we had two witnesses and you could probably assume an hour each, but we're over time on you already. In order to get to the second round completely, to be fair to everybody, it would take another 25 minutes.
Mr. Tinsley is in the building and waiting, but do we have agreement to do that?
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
4:40 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
Chair, if I may, Mr. Tinsley is actually here in Ottawa, is that correct? He's situated here in Ottawa?
4:40 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
I would move that we continue with Mr. Colvin, as he is in Washington. I would like to continue with him for at least the next 25--
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rick Casson
It would take 25 minutes. I don't even know if Mr. Colvin's available. I haven't asked him that yet.
4:40 p.m.
First Secretary, Embassy of Canada to the United States of America
I'm at your disposal.
