Evidence of meeting #5 for Special Committee on the Canadian Mission in Afghanistan in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was know.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
And you said you were punished for that somehow? If that were so and you raised it through your chain of command, which you've said, then how would you get a commendation letter from Warrant Officer Menard, who was your chain of command?
4:25 p.m.
Advisor to the Former Commander of the Joint Task Force Afghanistan, As an Individual
By the time I was punished, Menard had already left, because he was ROTO 3 and the letters you see were ROTO 4. So that's six months after.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Did you approve the appointment of Elissa Golberg as the representative of Canada in Kandahar?
4:25 p.m.
Advisor to the Former Commander of the Joint Task Force Afghanistan, As an Individual
If you quote me and see in the newspaper, I say she is a liability not an asset. No.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
4:25 p.m.
Advisor to the Former Commander of the Joint Task Force Afghanistan, As an Individual
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Can you tell me whether you have taken or are currently taking legal action against the Government of Canada?
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
4:25 p.m.
Advisor to the Former Commander of the Joint Task Force Afghanistan, As an Individual
I am not answering.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Then we will take that as not a denial that you are, have, or are currently pursuing legal action.
4:25 p.m.
Counsel to Ahmadshah Malgarai, As an Individual
You can look it up in the court registry if you like.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
We know how it works, Mr. Attaran, thank you very much. Please don't butt in.
4:25 p.m.
Counsel to Ahmadshah Malgarai, As an Individual
That's good. I hope you know the alphabet to look it up.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Attaran. Please be quiet.
Mr. Chair, I don't have another question, but I'm concerned that some of the testimony today has violated operational security, and we'll get somebody else to look at it. I would ask that the transcripts of today's proceedings be given to both--
4:25 p.m.
An hon. member
[Inaudible--Editor]
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
It's a legitimate.... I don't know the answer. With my military background I do have some suspicions. And it's not casting aspersions; it's just saying that in the discussions that have taken place, I am a little concerned some of the information has crossed the line of operational security.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you very much, Mr. Hawn.
This is televised, so it is public, so I'm sure all those who would have some concerns have access to it.
Thank you very much, Mr. Malgarai, for your attendance here today.
We're going to suspend very briefly because we've already cut the next witness a little short on time, so I would ask Mr. Malgarai to exit as quickly as possible.
If we can have Ms. Olexiuk come to the stand, please....
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Good afternoon. We welcome you back to our second hour. In this second hour we're continuing our study on the transfer of Afghan detainees. Appearing as a witness in this hour we have Ms. Eileen Olexiuk, former senior policy advisor to the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade.
Ms. Olexiuk, I understand you have a brief opening statement, and then we can proceed to questions from the members of this committee.
So thank you, and welcome. We look forward to your comments.
April 14th, 2010 / 4:30 p.m.
Eileen Olexiuk Former Senior Policy Advisor, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, As an Individual
Thank you for the invitation.
I'm afraid I'm not going to have an awful lot pertinent to tell you because I left Afghanistan in August 2005. I was there from September 2002 to August 2005. I was the first Canadian diplomat accredited full time to Afghanistan, and I was on my own that first year. There was no means of communicating with Ottawa at that time, so I travelled to Islamabad and filed my reports through the Canadian High Commission there. Then, as you are aware, the embassy opened in August 2003, and the first resident ambassador appeared. I was the political counsellor, and the deputy head of mission and chargé in the ambassador's absence. We were a very small team, just four: the ambassador, the CIDA program manager, the consular officer, and me.
I was able to travel extensively, especially in the first year. There were no travel restrictions on me. Sometimes I wondered if people even knew I was there because I went wherever I wanted, when I wanted. I had been told before I left to ensure that I would get the views of the “man on the street”, so it meant that I had to get away from some official circles and travel throughout the country.
My major responsibility, and what I reported to Ottawa on, was reform of the security sector. That included the army, police, justice, counter-narcotics, demilitarization, the provincial reconstruction teams, and so on. I had to report also on political developments, the constitution, elections, the formation of political parties, and of course human rights. The benchmarks against which I reported were the Bonn Agreement, the Loya Jirga decisions, presidential decrees, and civil society perceptions in Kabul and in the provinces.
I was also a political liaison for our defence attaché and RCMP liaison officers who were in Islamabad but accredited to Afghanistan as well.
Another part of the work was to organize all the programs for visits, including being the note-taker and writing the reports on the visits of the defence and foreign affairs ministers, senior officials, the Prime Minister, and the Governor General, twice.
As a background, I'll just tell you that I worked for CIDA at one point: Southeast Asia, Bangladesh, Colombia, Ecuador, and Pakistan. In Foreign Affairs, I worked on the economic and democratic transition in Russia, the Canadian assistance to that transitional period; on Bosnia; on reconstruction of the former Yugoslavia; and on the Balkans. This is before I went to Afghanistan.
What I learned, and certainly Afghanistan confirmed that, is that these fragile states, as they called them, or failing states, and the countries in transition and post-conflict situations, are not the usual diplomatic fare, as you can imagine. Rule of law is most often absent. In fact, I can't think of anywhere that it was present in these countries of transition in the way that we would describe it. Violence was the way they solved their differences, and of course corruption sets in very quickly. Human rights are severely neglected.
I've had many requests since I came back to go on talk shows, to have interviews, and I relented a few weeks ago, and I guess that's why I was invited here, because of my CBC interview. I want to clarify that I agreed to the CBC radio interview, and the sole purpose was to give some support to Richard Colvin, because I didn't see anyone really speaking up for him at all. In fact, he was being, it seemed to me, quite maligned.
During that interview I made no mention of ruling parties, politics, or names. I was quite surprised—and that's my naïveté in dealing with the media—to find it so highly charged and politicized in the evening news.
4:35 p.m.
Former Senior Policy Advisor, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, As an Individual
I want to assure you that in all my career I have served the interests of Canada, the Canadian people, as a non-partisan professional and as a person of integrity in some of the most troublesome hot spots of the world.
I want to refer to the annual human rights reports, because I think some of you might have some from 2002 to 2004 or 2005.
Those of us who work in the field and are charged with preparing human rights reports take this work very seriously. I do in particular, because I feel that if we do these reports well, they describe the human condition against the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It is important that they are studied by those who receive them and those who are to go out in the field, because they cover everything.
It's also important that we study our usual interlocutors and civil society's perceptions of authorities and power brokers. But this takes time, and we often don't have much time in a post-conflict country such as Afghanistan. We have to make snap decisions just to try to keep people alive. Too often we may be inclined to concoct quick fixes without tackling the root causes and without really understanding the subtleties and complexities of cultures so unlike our own. I have not, in all my career, been in a place as complex as Afghanistan.
With our current restrictions on civilian freedom of movement, it must be increasingly difficult for colleagues in the field to keep up with situations and the characters at play.
We are just now starting to get a glimpse into Afghanistan. l trust we can put this to work in our post-2011 interventions.
Thank you.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thanks very much, Ms. Olexiuk.
We'll move to our first round.
Mr. Wilfert.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Olexiuk, thank you very much for your testimony, and thank you very much for your service to Canada and Canadians. Obviously you have a very detailed CV.
During the time you were there, what was the policy on transferring detainees? Were they transferred to the United States or to the Afghans?
