Afghanistan Committee on April 21st, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Mr. Dechert, please.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

I'll go back to Mr. Lalani.

In terms of visits by elected officials from Canada, were they aware of the issues with respect to detainees and did you raise these concerns with them? Did they seem to share your concerns with respect to detainees? What was their reaction to these issues?

[Arif Lalani]

Thank you.

I think it would be fair to say that we discussed this issue, among other issues, with every visiting elected official. It was part of the brief that we would give to people to explain to them what we were trying to do. In that context, we certainly discussed it. I think they certainly understood what we were trying to do and had an understanding of what it was we were trying to do and what we were facing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Mr. Dechert, go ahead. No, you had better not go ahead.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

We'll come back to Mr. Dewar, please. We're trying to keep on a timeline.

Thank you.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Lalani, I want to get right to a question that I haven't quite figured out, just on the questions and responses, and it's in regard to Mr. Colvin.

Mr. Colvin provided evidence to committee--and I think you've probably read it--that there was a likelihood of detainees being abused and tortured when they were handed over. He told us that at committee. One of the other things he said was that there was some editing or censoring of his reports. Again, he said this, and I want to clarify it.

In particular, we know this was an issue, and certainly it was with the embassy here in Ottawa, because there were questions in the House and so on after Graeme Smith's report in The Globe and Mail. I know that was the topic for a lot of people, because we responded to that report, and I think you did. I want to be very specific here. I want you to answer through the chair.

He wrote that a Red Cross official who read the report in The Globe and Mail said that “allegations of abuse made by those Afghans interviewed by...Graeme Smith fit a common pattern”. He put that in his report. I think context is important, because the claim was made by Mr. Colvin and by the Red Cross as well that a more rapid response—and we've heard that we needed to respond more quickly—was absolutely critical in the first days because of the concerns around torture immediately following handover.

My question is whether you asked him to remove that from his report.

[Arif Lalani]

Thanks.

Look, I think you are quite right. The point of that message, as you've pointed out, was that a certain organization wanted us to speed up our notification procedure because they had concerns.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Right.

[Arif Lalani]

That point remained. It was front and centre in the summary of the message and in the content of the message, and that point was made, I think, in two or three successive paragraphs.

So in my view I was just kind of trying to make sure that in fact people understood that was what needed to be done; a few days later, we in fact did change the policy on that issue.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

But did you ask him to remove that paragraph from his report? Just to be clear.

[Arif Lalani]

Well, to be clear, I tried to give focus to what I thought was the point of the message.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

So you asked him to remove it, though? I don't want to dance here; I just want to know if you asked him to remove it. If you did, that's fine, and you've explained why.

[Arif Lalani]

I ask a lot of people to do a lot of things--

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

But I'm just asking you whether you asked him to remove it, yes or no.

[Arif Lalani]

And I'd look back at it, and sure I did, yes.

[A voice]

We all--

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Okay, thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Mr. Sproule, did you want in on that one?

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I wasn't asking Mr. Sproule; I was asking Mr. Lalani, if I may, through the chair.

I mean no disrespect to Mr. Sproule. I didn't have a question for him.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Okay.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Because my question was to follow up with regard to the NDS and it wasn't to Mr. Sproule; it was with regard to the NDS.

Mr. Lalani, here's one of the questions we had about the new agreement--that's why I didn't have a question for Mr. Sproule. It has become evident to me through evidence that has been given, and through what I've heard today, that when an allegation was made--and I'm not talking about monitoring now--the responsible entity to look into that allegation, to investigate it, when it was an NDS facility, was the NDS. Is that your understanding as well?

[Arif Lalani]

Well, I think we had a number of allegations that were made as a result of our monitoring missions. That's point one.

Point two, the agreement that we signed had clearly in it that the Afghans would exercise their obligations and their sovereignty by investigating allegations. So that was done.

Point three, as has been made very clear in all of the reporting that I think you may have seen and that others will see, we also informed the ICRC, who undertook whatever action they wanted to take. I want to be very careful about saying more about their work because--

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Well, you can't, and I understand that--

[Arif Lalani]

--it's absolutely important to protect their work.