Thank you.
Mr. Brunell.
Evidence of meeting #54 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was programs.
Evidence of meeting #54 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was programs.
4 p.m.
Rob Brunell President, Keystone Agricultural Producers’ (KAP) Young Farmers Committee
Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee members.
My name is Rob Brunell. I'm a grains and oilseeds producer in the province of Manitoba, about two and a half hours straight west of here, on the shores of another lake in this province, Lake Dauphin.
From being the chair of the Young Farmers Committee, sitting on the Canadian Young Farmers Forum board, and talking with young producers across Canada, I think there are a few key points I'd like to make.
First, when we develop policy in this country, I think there should be a baseline we build on, and that is profitability for farmers. If we can achieve that somehow, or improve profitability, I think a lot of the other issues we are dealing with will resolve themselves.
Programs under the APF that we've gone through in the past five years, and the ones we're building on, should focus on primary production in agriculture. We shouldn't be training producers for off-farm jobs or how to leave the farm; we should focus on agriculture and primary production.
On delivery agencies and how programs are delivered, there are prime examples of that. I sit on the environmental farm planning board for the province. It's a federal, provincial, and third-party delivery agency. I think that's an effective way to deliver programs through the next generation of the APF. We see how effective they can be and how they can deal with the changes and needs of producers. It is designed for the producers it's being delivered to--live producers--in conjunction with both levels of government.
On the other hand, the Canada–Manitoba farm stewardship program, which delivers the BMP dollars, is a federal government agency and it is not so flexible. The turnaround time for payments on these BMPs is slow, and it affects how producers and young producers access and make environmental changes on their operation.
That shows the two different delivery mechanisms in the same program and how one can be effective and achieve its goals how and how one is lagging behind.
When we develop agricultural policy, I think we have to look at it as a long-term vision. Being a young producer, a fourth-generation producer--with possibly the fifth generation still seven months away--I ask how I am going to get to the age of my dad, when I can retire. We make plans and we try to achieve those plans. Yet when we develop policy, there is no long-term vision for agriculture. We don't know where we're going. We don't know where to invest, as producers. There are a lot of bad investments being made and a lot of good investments, but we're not too sure as to what direction we should be taking.
I think there's a real need for long-term vision when we're developing policy. Policy should not change at whim or at change of governments or what have you. We need something that will continue way beyond a five-year period. Let's look at five years or ten years down the road and how we can achieve these goals.
For a prime example, we can look south of us and see what they've done with their ethanol industry. It's taken years of planning and research and plant breeding to achieve high corn yields for ethanol production. There was a long-term goal. They're achieving that and moving forward. I think that's something we have to look forward to.
I think some of the programs delivered under the current APF, in education and the CASS, are good programs. We're seeing a lot of benefits to them. The delivery mechanism is different in every province. In the province of Manitoba, and actually not far from my hometown, they've created a framework to deliver CASS programs. It's another grassroots, local community development type of group that has taken on the task of helping their community access education.
On that note, I think the education delivered through these programs should focus on primary producers. There's a need to educate producers on a better marketing strategy, farm business management, and the list goes on and on. There are a lot of ways we can capture more of the pie through better management skills.
The Canadian Young Farmers' Forum is involved with a pilot project in Alberta that is developing best management practices and training young producers on better management practices, and I think these are important things. We look at the businesses we deal with in this country and in the world. A lot of farms don't gross as much money as some of these CEOs gross, and that's who we're doing business with directly.
I think the increase in public research dollars is another key area. Public research generally benefits farmers because the research is returned to the farmers so they can access it and use it better. They're not looking after corporate bottom lines and corporate structures. They're to benefit the public good and producers.
When we last met in Ottawa, we had a discussion around intergenerational transfers and that sort of thing. These programs I think are working, but when you sit down as a young producer and look at your farm's books or your dad's books, there is no way to pencil out a generational transfer. We are living on our equity. There's not enough money in there to pass that farm from generation to generation.
So I think there's the profitability, but there are other things. We look at increasing the capital gains exemptions and things like that. Those are important, because if you're passing a farm from one generation to the other, you can look at it and say you don't need to sell your farm for this much money because you lost this much in tax. You can lower your price, capture more dollars in the seller's pocket, and with the next generation as the purchaser, your purchase price is lower. So we're helping each other out.
In closing, I'd like to thank you for this opportunity to present. This is the fourth time I've presented on consultations on the APF, round one and round two, and then we've done a one-on-one consultation with the AAFC staff with the Canadian Young Farmers, so I think this is great that you're listening to producers.
My hope is that at the end of this and in the development of these policies, producers are heard, that we have a large stake in this next round. I'm looking forward to seeing what's coming out of this. And I hope we are heard, because if not, I think this has all been a waste of time.
Thank you very much for this opportunity.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Those were some very good presentations.
Rob, you certainly covered a wide field of topics, all the way from how your father's generation is going to retire off a farm and how another generation is to take over.
I want to ask questions first of all to Dr. Wittenberg. In terms of the University of Manitoba, you expressed some concerns with the enrolment, and it's a problem, I think, in most rural provinces. But when you look at the overall future of the university, are enrolments declining across all faculties, or mainly in agriculture?
4:05 p.m.
Associate, Faculty of Agricultural and Food Sciences, University of Manitoba
The focus of my presentation was enrolment in a faculty of agriculture as compared to total university enrolment.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
So the conclusion would be that this is an anomaly in terms of what's happening in agriculture?
4:05 p.m.
Associate, Faculty of Agricultural and Food Sciences, University of Manitoba
Although universities can go up and down in terms of enrolment, depending on what our youth plan to do--they may want to go to a college or go right into a career after high school--we're seeing that the percentage of students enrolled in agriculture faculties across Canada, relative to total university enrolment, is declining. In other words, the number of people who choose a career in an ag-related sector--it could be in transportation, economics, it doesn't matter--is declining.
4:05 p.m.
Associate, Faculty of Agricultural and Food Sciences, University of Manitoba
Yes.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
Peter, in terms of the farmer who's growing peas, can you give us an example of what happens from the time it leaves the farm gate until it arrives maybe in China? Apparently they have had a little special venture in peas recently. I was reading about some restaurant chains there that are using them. What happens from the time the sale is consummated until the product gets to China?
4:10 p.m.
Director, Market Innovation, Pulse Canada
I'll let Greg answer that question, if you don't mind.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
I'm worried about this transportation business. Where are the impediments?
April 19th, 2007 / 4:10 p.m.
Greg Cherewyk Director of Market Development, Pulse Canada
Let's take it from the point of the plant.
The plant has purchased some peas for delivery in China. As the end use they actually extract starch from yellow peas and create clear noodles--very elastic, stretchy noodles. That's a growing market for us; over 250,000 tonnes of yellow peas went into China last year.
At a point in Saskatchewan, just for argument's sake, once the peas are bought and inside the plant, the next step of the process is to get something called terminal authorization, so you have to book a vessel. You have to ensure that you have a spot on the vessel for your product that's going to be shipped to China. You have to do that before you can get a booking at a trans-loading facility.
You're going to move your peas to Vancouver to be put in containers. They're going to be put in containers at a trans-loading facility in Vancouver. Then they're going to board a vessel, but before you arrange for railcars at your plant, you have to ensure that your vessel is booked and that your trans-loading facility time to put the product into a container is also booked. Once you've done that, the railways will commit to allocating your cars.
For our industry, the record has been that once you've got those things in order, the number of cars allocated is in the neighbourhood of 20% of what you're requesting. You have to order hopper cars to put your peas into to move them to Vancouver, and you're only getting 20% of what you've requested.
On top of that, when the cars do come, typically they're in a condition that's not suitable for movement, so they have to be repaired by the staff on site. Not only do they have to be repaired into a condition suitable for moving your product, but they also have to be repaired within the time limits specified by the railway, or else they'll charge you demurrage on that.
So already you've been allocated fewer cars than you've requested. The cars show up in poor condition. You do load them. You get them loaded on time. Then, of course, the railways can move them when they feel like moving them, so they might move them within a day or they might move them within seven days.
As Peter said, your next hurdle is transit time. On average it's 16 days to get to Vancouver. With the variability, you could arrive in eight days or 24 days. Obviously this creates huge problems for the transloading facility that's going to move the peas from the hopper cars into the containers, because they don't know when your product's coming and you don't know when it's coming and often everything's coming at once, so it all comes on top of each other.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
My time's up?
I was going to ask about this darn container business. I thought you were mainly using containers.
4:10 p.m.
Director of Market Development, Pulse Canada
We are. You have a choice: you can load at your plants or in Vancouver.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
Some day we'll have to get the complete story, but in shipping there's storage at the ports. We'll have to look into that.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Bezan
I suspect that in the future we will be doing a study on grain handling and shipping, but we are out of time.
For those of you who require translation services, the equipment is in front of you.
Mr. Gaudet, you have five minutes.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Wittenberg, earlier you said that there were fewer young people choosing to study agriculture at university. In your opinion, what is the reason for this drop?
Mr. Brunell seemed to be saying earlier that, in his area, things are going well.
Why are fewer people attending university? Do you think that immigration will help to make farming more popular?
4:10 p.m.
Associate, Faculty of Agricultural and Food Sciences, University of Manitoba
Let me respond to your first question, which was on the reasons students are not selecting agriculture as a choice of study. If you have, as I do, a son or daughter in grade 12, and they say they're going to go into agriculture at the University of Manitoba or Saskatoon, it's not sexy. Media and public perception has really moved their goals away from agriculture, because there's absolutely nothing neat about it in the way it's presented to our youth.
Second, we suffer from an image. To many people, young and old, agriculture is simply farming. The fact that there are international careers in trade, economics, and processing, all as a part of the training we offer in our faculties, is not known by the general public and is not known by our educators at the high school level; consequently, it is not information that our students have available to them when they're making these important decisions.
In terms of immigration, that is a very good question. I can tell you that industries are now actively recruiting from other countries to find the labour they need in production and in processing facilities.
4:15 p.m.
Associate, Faculty of Agricultural and Food Sciences, University of Manitoba
The only other comment I want to make is about our move to bring in someone to help these people, who have training in other countries, become accredited so they can be considered full-fledged agrologists, or certified in whichever field they're in. This is a new program. I'm not aware that any other university is doing this. It is our hope that this can become a vehicle to allow some of our immigrants with the appropriate training to take on higher-end jobs. I don't know how successful it will be; it's too new.
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
Thank you.
Mr. Brunell, I have one question for you. You said that the government needs to have long-term policies. What do you mean by "long-term"? In terms of imports and exports, this can change from one year, two years or three years. It's all fine and well to have a policy but if a product comes into the country in another region in Canada or if our product is being sent more quickly outside Canada we need to strike the right balance. I'd like to hear your opinion on this.