Agriculture Committee on March 13th, 2008

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

The committee has changed since you were here. We used to get along.

[Elwin Hermanson]

There are couple things that I don't mind putting on the record, and I hope I'm not breaking any rules of the committee.

First, years ago Minister Ritz and I were colleagues. But this had no bearing—from either my perspective or his—on my decision to let my name stand for the chief commissioner's position.

Second, with regard to the Canadian Wheat Board, the board is a client of the Canadian Grain Commission. It is my intention as chief commissioner to have a positive relationship with the Canadian Wheat Board, as we would hope to have with all our clients. Beyond that, I don't believe it is the role of the chief commissioner to speak on Wheat Board issues. I haven't and I won't.

You talked about the op-ed piece. When I assumed the position of chief commissioner on January 21 of this year, senior management from the commission, including the other two commissioners, approached me about writing an introductory letter. We worked on the op-ed piece with three purposes in mind.

The primary purpose was to identify me with the Canadian Grain Commission. That is why I was signatory to the letter. I wanted the industry, from producers to customers abroad, to know that the new chief commissioner for the Canadian Grain Commission was Elwin Hermanson.

The second reason we wrote the op-ed piece was to reassure farmers, the industry, and customers of the Canadian Grain Commission that Bill C-39 would not weaken Canada's grain quality assurance system. That's the raison d'être for the Canadian Grain Commission. That's the reason for the Canada Grain Act—to ensure that Canada's grain quality assurance system is second to none in the world, which I believe it is. It's my commitment to maintain that quality. We discussed the impact of Bill C-39.

Finally, I wanted to state that farmers will continue to be protected under the Canada Grain Act. I wanted to make it known that the Canada Grain Act would remain in existence under Bill C-39, and that it would continue to provide farmers with the protection they had experienced in the past.

Those were the three purposes for writing the op-ed article. I concurred with that decision then and I concur with it now. Those objectives were correct. I think it's unfortunate that it's become a political football, because it was never intended to be that.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Bellavance.

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

I would like to make a comment before I begin. The last time I saw a chairman with an opened copy of Marleau and Montpetit in front of him, it was when Alphonso Gagliano testified about the sponsorship scandal. The Conservatives were really unhappy with the fact that the chairman was so inflexible regarding questions about his appointment as ambassador to Denmark. No questions could be asked other than those deemed acceptable by the chair or the members of the Liberal Party. It is funny to see the shoe on the other foot today, don't you think?

Welcome, Mr. Hermanson. In order to judge the competence of a person, one must obviously take a look at his past, the actions taken and the statements made. Since you were a member of Parliament from 1993 to 1997, you had the opportunity to participate in many debates in the House of Commons or in Committee.

I would like to know, first of all, as a purely technical matter, what is the amount of your salary.

[Elwin Hermanson]

My salary is in the range offered to people in the GCQ-8 level—$204,400 to $240,000. I can't remember the exact number, but it is in that range.

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

And how much are you paid?

[Elwin Hermanson]

I'm not sure if that's an infringement. Usually I'm not asked exactly what I make. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to say. If it's the will of the committee, and if it's proper that I disclose it, I will. I recognize that this may have an impact beyond the committee. It certainly is within that range, and it's neither the maximum nor the minimum.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Hermanson, just to interject for the members' benefit, you're a GCQ-8. This is part of the order in council salary range, at $204,300 to $240,400.

As to his specific salary, once again we're talking about his qualifications and competence, not about his salary. That's outside the scope of the rules.

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

I disagree. At any rate, his salary is being paid by the people. They also pay ours and ours is published in the press. Even the additional salary you are paid as chair and what we get as vice-chairs are available everywhere.

At any rate, you make between $204,000 and $240,000. We need to determine if your qualifications justify such a salary. You have been an MP for the Reform Party from 1993 to 1997. Could you tell us who were your riding assistants?

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

On a point of order, I think we dealt with that.

I believe it has been ruled on a point of order that this subject could not be raised.

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

I simply asked who were his constituency assistants when he was an MP. In my view, the fact that he was a member of Parliament is part of...

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

We aren't talking about political affiliation here. We are talking about the job that he did as a member of Parliament.

I'll leave it up to Mr. Hermanson as to whether he wants to address it.

[Elwin Hermanson]

Again, this is no secret. I had two constituency assistants during my period as a member of Parliament, and a couple of constituency assistants while I was a member of the Saskatchewan legislature.

I think what the member is referring to is that one of the constituency assistants who served me for part of my term as a member Parliament is the current Minister of Agriculture. That's no secret. It's certainly nothing that I find problematic. I reiterate that the relationship had no bearing whatsoever on my decision or, I believe, on my appointment to the Canadian Grain Commission as chief commissioner.

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mind you, I was not casting blame, it was a simple question. I believe the people are entitled to know that the current Minister of Agriculture has been your constituency assistant and your campaign manager in 1993.

I said earlier that it is interesting to look at the record to see what statements you made on specific occasions. On December 12, 1996, the House of Commons was considering the creation of the Canadian Food Inspection Agency. You can look it up in the Hansard. At that time, you supported amendments from the Bloc québécois regarding the setting up of the agency, but also the appointment process in this regard. You said that the Reform Party had proposed an amendment to Bill C-60 that said:

No appointment shall be made under subsection 10(1) unless it is approved by a subcommittee of the House of Common's committee struck or established to consider: (a) matters related to agriculture;

There were a number of other subparagraphs. Do you still hold the same opinion on this matter?

[Elwin Hermanson]

You're now asking me to get into a policy area. In my former life, I was happy to speak on policy issues. In this current position as the chief commissioner of the Canadian Grain Commission, it's really not proper for me to speak on policy issues, particularly those outside my area of jurisdiction. So I will try to uphold the code of values and ethics that I have agreed to subscribe to.

I don't want to be disagreeable. I would like to cooperate. Obviously there is an inclination to speak out on a political issue outside of my jurisdiction, but I have disciplined myself to not do that.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

As a public servant, as somebody who's here at the pleasure of government, you do have the right to decline to answer that question. It is policy outside your area, and you're not here to give policy advice or say anything that might jeopardize your relationship with the minister.

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

I believe that in order to determine the competence of an appointee, it is important to look to the past to find out what the person said. You also stated:

Party loyalty has become the main criteria in making appointments to various boards, without public scrutiny and without the merit principle being the main factor.

[Elwin Hermanson]

My decision to seek the position of chief commissioner was made after I reviewed the qualifications that the candidate should have. When I read those qualifications—and there are a number of them—I felt like the shoe fit. During all my time in public life I have sought to serve a country that I love a whole lot and a province that I very much appreciate. I saw this position as a way to extend that service, based on the qualifications and experience that I had attained in my lifetime.

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

You said other interesting things, such as:

No one was appointed by the Conservative government who did not have references as a strong supporter of the Conservative Party.

You also stated:

It is sad to see Conservatives and Liberals trying to outdo each other by handing out appointments tainted by patronage. Under the Conservative government of Mulroney, Marjory LeBreton was effectively the minister of patronage.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, I question the relevance of what I've heard. And second, could Mr. Bellavance slow down a little bit so that the interpreters can keep up with him? I'm sure that would be appreciated not only by this side, but also—

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

It will be a pleasure.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Bellavance, your time has expired. You're already at eight minutes. I'm going to call that question out of order.

We'll move on to Monsieur Lauzon.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Mr. Hermanson.

With all due respect, the reason I think we should concentrate on your qualifications rather than your political past is that if we went down the political road, we probably wouldn't have had the last commissioner, because I understand that the husband of your predecessor—the husband of Ms. Chris Hamblin, Lorne—was actually a Liberal candidate in the 1983 Manitoba election.

So I think we don't want to go down that road. I think what we want to do—

[An hon. member]

There's a point of order.

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

If we cannot raise stories such as this for even 30 seconds, I do not see why Mr. Lauzon should be able to do so. This is wrong.