Agriculture Committee on Oct. 25th, 2011

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Thanks, Mr. Chair, and my thanks to both of you for being here.

I'm just seeing how my train of thought is going here. We're discussing science and innovation. Many are saying, and we're being told, that one of the reasons we should be working on science and innovation is that we're trying to increase production and GMOs and our ability to feed the world.

The report by the International Assessment of Agricultural Knowledge, Science and Technology for Development, or IAASTD, was endorsed by 58 governments, including ours—except the section on GMOs. It says that the answer is not just more food production. It says that in 2000 the world was producing enough food to feed everyone an average of 2,800 kilocalories per day, and yet 850 million people were still hungry. The report goes on to say that we can't techno-fix our way out of problems. They lean more to sustainable local agriculture.

In addition to continuing research in what we call the industrial agricultural model, how can we help other countries through our research in animal sciences or animal health to improve the sustainability of their agricultural practices?

The example we often see is that when subsidized U.S. rice goes to Africa, people who are producing rice get displaced from their farms, and then they have to rely on the foreign rice. We've seen this in Haiti and Mexico. How can we as a nation help other countries, through our research and innovation, to work on their sustainability, have healthier animals, and also to produce crops to feed themselves?

I'll just leave that open.

[Matthew Holmes]

The United Nations Conference on Trade and Development has put out a significant amount of research on how organic production methods offer a great opportunity. Most of the world uses low-input farming at this point, and it's not likely to change any time soon. We can learn the lessons of our developed country here in Canada. The EU and the U.S. also have put significant investments into organic research, in order to look at how these low-input methods actually provide a great opportunity for localized systems around the world.

We also see a great benefit for trade to continue. Those African farmers rely on an organic market in Europe to provide them with an alternative method, and one that is not putting them into a cycle of dependence on other methods of agriculture, which could be harmful to them.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Dr. Freeman, do you have any comments on that?

[Dr. Douglas Freeman]

I do. It's a great question, and so much of it goes beyond our scientific knowledge on animal health or animal husbandry or disease transmission.

In my experience of working in Uganda and east African countries, I found that they have some of the same disease issues we have here, only they are magnified because of lack of eradication programs for tuberculosis or brucellosis, or the lack of the infrastructure to deal with a major anthrax outbreak. So some of the information that we develop here can be applied there, but you need to be understanding of culture and other factors.

In other cases, we need to be aware of what works in those settings. In Uganda goats are an important source of meat. They're probably one of the safest meats in Uganda, to judge by incidents of food safety issues. Goats are good for these pastoral settings compared with other livestock, because of what they're able to eat. So understanding how you might work with that species in Uganda, as opposed to a Holstein dairy cow or something, would be important. The bottom line is that it's important to engage those countries.

I'll speak now for veterinary medicine. The training that veterinarians get in animal health and public health is broad-based, and veterinarians can have a significant impact in those areas around the world. And they do. Our college is trying to expand our efforts to bring in international students, and I think it's important that we as a country do that as well.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Dr. Freeman, do we send our expertise in this area overseas through CIDA or through other organizations to assist people on the ground with the health of their animals, for example?

[Dr. Douglas Freeman]

I can't speak globally for the whole country, but certainly individuals who have an interest in this are involved and do participate in collaborative grants that do that. We have some faculty involved in that way. The veterinary schools here are involved with the World Organisation for Animal Health, which would have a role there as well.

I'm not aware of our having a focused or broad program, but there are many avenues to do that, including voluntary efforts through Veterinarians without Borders and things like that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

You have just a few seconds, Alex.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

I have just a final question.

Matthew, I believe it was the Union of Concerned Scientists that came out with a statement on this. I was actually at a meeting here with one of the representatives who said, when asked whether we can feed the world organically, “Yes”.

What's your take on that?

[Matthew Holmes]

Our opinion is yes. We've noted—and it was also noted earlier—that we currently grow enough food to feed the world.

The longest field trials comparing organic and conventional systems are done by the Rodale Institute in the United States, and show increased yields and resilience under organic agriculture. So we do feel there's a positive alternative there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you.

We'll now move to Mr. Wilks.

Welcome to the committee. Go ahead for five minutes, please.

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, gentlemen, and thank you for coming this afternoon.

My first question is to you, Dr. Freeman.

Earlier you mentioned collaborative groups. I was just wondering with regard to that, what tangible measures you would take to promote collaboration and partnership among industry, producers, universities, governments, and consumers?

[Dr. Douglas Freeman]

I guess my presumption is that consumers would probably link through the industry ties as much as anything else.

As a department head of veterinary science in the United States, I sat on a national animal health advisory committee that looked, on an annual basis, at multi-state collaborative projects funded by the USDA. Part of that assessment looked at whether they were working together or somewhat segregated but linked in the project. So I think a model like the clusters would be a very valuable tool to give those groups feedback from outside, in a committee-type organization, to say that they could work more closely together than they are.

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Matthew, do you have any comment at all? If you don't, I have a question for you.

[Matthew Holmes]

No, that's okay.

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

You'd mentioned that we seem to be lagging behind in long-term standards maintenance. What are some of the opportunities that could be created to increase the long-term standards of maintenance? Where do you see us going there?

[Matthew Holmes]

Some of it is merely administrative. It would involve establishing some core funding for the departments involved in providing that support to the organic sector to maintain and ensure there's a secretarial function being played.

The majority on the technical committee operates on volunteer time, so it's simply a matter of bringing them together through physical or technological means to form working groups and to review and assess submissions. One of the rationales for this, of course, is that the standards are evergreen. They're meant to be evergreen. That was why we pursued smart regulation, with regulation by reference to a standard. In fact, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency won an internal award for their collaboration with the organic sector in establishing these standards and regulations. It's actually a great model.

One of the things that benefit us in the Canadian sector is that we can remain adaptive and innovative as a new production practice or a new material is identified. We want to be able to adjust the standards over time to reflect those innovations, those findings from our research, for example, that could really give us a competitive edge. Again, that explains part of the need for that infrastructure.

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Do you have anything at all on that, Dr. Freeman?

[Dr. Douglas Freeman]

I have nothing here.

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

How much more time do I have?

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

You have two minutes.

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

I will defer to Mr. Zimmer, if he wants to--

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Go ahead, Mr. Zimmer.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Again for Matthew, I am wondering about the current situation with organics. It sounds like there is investment in there and I just want to know if you have a problem in obtaining venture capital. If so, could you gives us ideas on how to make that capital easier to access.

[Matthew Holmes]

We're just starting having an interest expressed in that area by venture capital. There have always been, to a certain extent, investors investing in individual companies. As we continued to grow through the recession, at anywhere from 7% to 15% growth through 2009-10, when most other food and agricultural sectors saw negative growth, we have certainly noted the sector beginning to catch investors' attention. It's early; it's beginning.

Again, what we have is a horizontal sector. So it's in every commodity and every processing area and we have some that well out in front and doing well and established and strong. They have sustainable systems in place internally, and we have others that are challenged. So the value chain in Canada is currently broken in some places and we're doing what we can to try to develop it in a consistent way.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you.

We'll now move to Ms. Raynault. Actually with the time the way it is, if you could ask one question, we'll get an answer to that, which will equal the time out.