Evidence of meeting #108 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was help.
A video is available from Parliament.
10 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you very much, Ms. Reynolds, for your testimony.
We'll have a round of questions.
Mr. Dreeshen, you have six minutes.
10 a.m.
Conservative
Earl Dreeshen Conservative Red Deer—Mountain View, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to our guests.
I, too, farm. Right now we have 80% of our crop under snow. It's going to cover just a little bit of the basic expenses that we would have to pay for this month, but it won't be there for the rest of the year. I know exactly where you're coming from in so many different ways.
Quite frankly, people don't understand the significance of what it's like. You have to get on a $300,000 piece of equipment. You're stressed. You're getting three or four hours of sleep a day, so you're working 18-hour days. People don't seem to recognize what that is like.
We've had studies going on that say, “Look, this is the average income of a farmer; this is the money that they have coming in.” They don't understand the investment. They don't understand just how significant that is.
Mr. Stanford, you spoke about some of the types of bullying and other issues, and the frustrations you have from that. What we're going to try to do here is come up with solutions. Perhaps you could expand a little bit on some of those stresses that you see from people who aren't prepared to move forward or who don't understand the need to move forward.
10:05 a.m.
Farmer, As an Individual
There are quite a few different levels to that. Some of the bullying and some of the questions or misunderstanding comes online from other folks who I either know very little or don't know at all. Others, even some of my family members, don't understand the stresses and the struggles that I go through.
I think a lot more producers have more issues than they let on about, even my own grandfather. Nobody knew about this until I started speaking up about it, but when he was younger than me, in his twenties, he was hospitalized for three days because of stress. He never even talked about it to any of his family members until recently. I think it's a good thing that we have these conversations and that we talk about this. The more we talk about it, the easier it's going to become for everybody to understand, but right now there's still quite a wall put up by everybody.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Earl Dreeshen Conservative Red Deer—Mountain View, AB
Mehgin, you came from a different way of life and then went into farming. In one of the discussions we had earlier today, the frustration presented was that agriculture is being attacked. It is being attacked by different types of activists. I won't go through the list, because you would be well aware of what they would be. What we need to do is find a way to perhaps start in schools to determine how we can come up with solutions.
I was formerly a school teacher to support my farming habit. I see school groups writing letters to say that we have to save the bees and therefore we have to make sure that we get rid of the neonicotinoids. They just don't understand.
How do we get into the communities and into the urban areas so that they'll have some idea of the actual business? Then maybe we can start talking about how it affects the actual producers.
10:05 a.m.
Owner Operator, LPG Farms
Yes. Right now most Canadians are removed at least three generations from the family farm. There is a huge disconnect there. I was one of them.
We need something that is national. Right now we have Agriculture in the Classroom in Saskatchewan. Alberta tries to do the same program. Nothing is coordinated. What I've really noticed recently is that there is a breakdown in the trust between the consumer, the farmer, the companies we buy our products from and Health Canada. The whole glyphosate case happened in the States. I joined that conversation and I was cheering, “Look, Health Canada reviewed it in 2017”—people don't trust that. They don't trust the regulatory bodies reviewing these issues.
We need to find a way to do education in the classrooms nationally, because we know that the best way to influence people my age or older is through their children or grandchildren bringing this information home. We need to do something nationally. We can maybe work with Health Canada to do that, to create something that fits the curriculum so that it's easy for the teacher, because it needs to be easy for the teacher, as you know. We can try to repair the trust on two sides, with the farmer and also with the government and Health Canada.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Earl Dreeshen Conservative Red Deer—Mountain View, AB
I think one of the other issues is to get people talking. One of the other groups earlier today said that they have professionals who go around—they called it a “milk run”—checking on farmers to see how they're doing. This was a Quebec-based group. My thought was about a way of branching this out into other areas. Would something like that work in your community, having professionals who understood agriculture and who would be able to go to various groups or communities or farms to be able to help?
10:05 a.m.
Owner Operator, LPG Farms
Sean talked about using FaceTime with a therapist. I know there are therapists who do that right now. I think that would be more the route to go.
One of the problems linked to the stigma is that even if we were to have the services in my little town of 375 people, it's guaranteed that 99% of the people would not utilize them, because they don't want their neighbour to know they're utilizing them.
It needs to be something that would be discreet, if that person needs it to be discreet.
10:05 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you, Ms. Reynolds.
Thank you, Mr. Dreeshen.
Mr. Peschisolido is next.
10:05 a.m.
Liberal
Joe Peschisolido Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Mr. Chair, thank you.
Guests, thank you for coming out.
I'd like to begin by fundamentally disagreeing with you. You're not failures. You're not weak. You are perhaps the strongest witnesses I've ever heard at any committee. I commend you. What you're doing here to change the stigma is just amazing. My heart goes out to you, and I say thank you for what you're doing.
You talked about some of the challenges. I was intrigued, Mr. Stanford, when you talked about the app regarding mental health. Can you talk a little bit more about that?
10:10 a.m.
Farmer, As an Individual
As far as I know right now, nothing exists like that, although there might be something I'm not aware of.
Just being able to identify some of the issues or some of the feelings people are going through might lead them to the right path if they have some sort of mental health condition, whether it's a bit of anxiety, some depression, some stress, or whatever it is. If there were, perhaps, a checklist, where you fill out boxes on whether you feel this or that, then at least somebody would know if you're just having a bad day or if there are some deeper problems that you need to seek professional help for.
10:10 a.m.
Liberal
Joe Peschisolido Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
You were talking about professional help and how you're dealing with the professional services. Health care and the provision of services is at the provincial level. It's more of a community function. Can you give us your thoughts on how you believe we could improve that? Just elaborate a little bit more. I think you're bang on. That is one of the things we need to fix.
10:10 a.m.
Farmer, As an Individual
As far as direct health care from doctors and nurses goes, in my area it's fairly good, except for having to travel a bit of a distance to get to a hospital or a clinic. That's not a huge deal.
The problem is the other services—getting a psychologist, a therapist, a counsellor. They are the ones who seem to have a huge waiting list, and they seem to be very expensive. I think that's where we need to try to do more work.
I don't know if this means training more of these specialists to be even more proactive in that particular area, or if there just needs to be more therapists and counsellors, but that's where there seems to be the biggest gap. It's in the actual mental health part of it. The direct doctors, nurses, and things seem to be okay, in my understanding.
10:10 a.m.
Liberal
Joe Peschisolido Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
One other factor that you talked about was isolation. I can't relate, because I'm not a farmer, but in my neck of the woods, I've spoken to quite a few farmers who identified that issue as well, in different areas. There's Bruce May, who was involved in cranberries and berries, and there's Steve Easterbrook, who was involved with chickens, hens and cattle.
How can we fix that? How can we as a society, particularly the federal government, be helpful in getting at the issue of isolation?
10:10 a.m.
Farmer, As an Individual
That's a pretty intense question. The Internet is a huge help. I've known Megz for quite a while now. We met through social media, and we've become friends through it. Having access to good Internet out in the country where you're isolated has been a really huge help. To some people it may seem a small a thing or just a convenience, but for us it's getting to be almost a necessity, just to keep contact with the outside world.
The world is a different place now. There used to be county dances or little halls where there were parties every couple of weeks, or something like that. That doesn't really happen anymore. There are not nearly as many farmers or people out in the country as there used to be. With fewer of us in certain areas—we're more spread out—there must be some other way to keep in better contact with each other, because a lot of times the only ones who understand us are other producers.
10:10 a.m.
Liberal
Joe Peschisolido Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Madam Reynolds, you talked about the cost of inputs, seeds and other things. Can you talk a little more about that?
10:10 a.m.
Owner Operator, LPG Farms
I'm not sure why Canada is the second highest in the world. Japan is the only country in front of us. Where I farm in Saskatchewan, we have huge potash mines, so it's a little mind-boggling.
That's not something that we get to change. If we want to grow the best crop that we can, the only things we are able to control in growing that crop to its full potential are our inputs and the way we take care of that seed.
10:15 a.m.
Owner Operator, LPG Farms
Like Sean said, we can't control the weather. What we can control are our inputs, and that costs us a lot.
We need to go in being completely positive that even if we start out in a drought, it's going to turn around. If we treat that crop as it's growing with the herbicides and the fungicides and insecticides to kill the weeds so there's no competition, then we get that weather and suddenly we have a crop. If we haven't taken care of it to that point, we're not going to have a great crop.
We put those those inputs in with the hope that we're going to get the weather we need, and chances are we don't. This year, I had two and a half inches of rain. It was a drought year, not a great crop year. You spend that hoping you'll get it back, and oftentimes you don't.
As Sean was saying, we need to think of rural Internet basically as the land line. The land line used to be the necessity. We made sure, federally, that there were land lines everywhere. There was a grant to ensure that this was in place. I think that's now how we have to approach rural Internet, not only for connectivity but also for our business. Farming is a business.
10:15 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you, Ms. Reynolds. Thank you, Mr. Peschisolido.
Go ahead, Mr. MacGregor, for six minutes.
October 2nd, 2018 / 10:15 a.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Thank you, Chair.
I want to echo my colleague's comment to both of you for having the courage to come before a parliamentary committee that is televised.
You made reference to the fact that there's still a lot of stigma within your community. Trust me: By the very fact of your being here today and speaking out, I know there are a lot of farmers out there who are saying that's exactly how they feel. This is how we get the conversation started.
There are other professions, notably in the military and first responders, who very much have a culture where it's man up and just deal with the problem. They are starting to shift, because they have seen the effect on their members and they cannot be effective in the job they do.
You know this as a first responder, a volunteer firefighter. I have friends who do the same thing. I'm from a rural community. Often, they are first on the scene for a motor vehicle accident, and it could very well be someone they know in the community.
I want to start by thanking you both for coming.
There are so many factors that are beyond a farmer's control.
One of the strengths we have, especially within government, is to try to mitigate things when they happen. When you go through a hailstorm and it wipes out your crop, when you look at the suite of business risk management programs currently on offer, are they adequate and are they doing the job? What improvements can we make to give farmers a safety net from which we know they can rebound?
Do you have any comments?
10:15 a.m.
Farmer, As an Individual
There are some programs.
Last year, when we had a bit of a drought year and we didn't have a great crop, I still didn't quite qualify to get paid out on crop insurance. The crop insurance program is something I've paid into every year. With some of our drought fields this year, it looks as though I will get paid out.
It seems as though the levels where some of these claims can be made are too wide, or it needs to be more in favour of the producers than it is to the insurance companies. It doesn't matter how you try to insure your crop; you could still be losing money on all the inputs you put in.
As Megz said, inputs are expensive, and you still won't get an insurance payout, so you're wondering why you're paying into this insurance program when you can't even break even when you have a poor year.
10:15 a.m.
Farmer, As an Individual
I think that needs to be looked at a little closer, in my opinion.
10:15 a.m.
Owner Operator, LPG Farms
With AgriStability, it doesn't really work for my farm, for instance, if you're trying to expand your operation or if you're new. We're technically fourth generation, but my husband started the farm up a couple of years before I came along. We're basically operating as a first-generation farm with our risk load and our debt load. A lot of what I have is debt—my equipment, my land—and that's not factored into expenses in AgriStability. The way that AgriStability is currently set up does not help as a risk management tool for my business.
Regarding crop insurance, I'm not sure if there's a way to do it, but there are private companies now that are coming up. Global Ag Risk is one of them. It's a really interesting business model for insurance that would fit my farm better, but the premiums are too expensive because they don't have that subsidy. I would be interested to see if we can take the provincial and federal subsidies and apply them to the insurance on our farm that we feel is best.