Agriculture Committee on Oct. 4th, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. MacGregor.

Mr. Drouin, you now have the floor. You have six minutes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will be sharing my time with Mr. Tabbara. He doesn't come frequently, but he's here for this topic.

Ms. Doré, in your opening statements, you mentioned that we need to equip the 4-Hs of this world, and the other ag groups, with better tools to reach out to farmers. Is that correct? How would you do that?

[Mary Ann Doré]

Well, for example, one of our salespeople sells fencing and dairy equipment. My husband Joe and I were at a panel speaking at a farm trade show. The sales guy came up to us and said that farmers have been talking about this in the last year. It's very interesting that this is becoming more of a mainstay conversation. He's had eight farmers approach him to talk about their struggles. He said he didn't know if he was the only person they've ever talked to about that. He didn't really know where to send them, and didn't feel confident with his knowledge to get them to a counsellor or a doctor. That's a lot of pressure to put on people.

We've talked to our veterinarian about this a lot. Veterinarians also struggle with mental health pressures, They're often the ones who are there on your worst day when you're dealing with sick animals. I think it's about being able to train everyone in the industry to notice changes in people.

Looking back, I know that when my husband was in a crisis, he didn't want to go to trade shows and meetings that he used to go to. There were all of these signs of things that were very subtle. You just think, well, he's kind of grumpy sometimes, and that's fine. Looking back, you think, oh, that's a thing.

A couple of months ago, I didn't want to go to a meeting. I was kind of sullen and didn't want to do things. I realized something was going on with me, and I was able to sort of check myself and try to improve the situation.

With all of this extra knowledge and training of people to look out and notice if someone is.... If you walk into a barn and notice that it's not as clean as it usually is, that's an easy way to ask how they really are and to start those conversations...as well as knowing what to do with the answer once you get an answer.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I talked with a doctor in psychology who is advising major companies. She says they're developing peer systems and essentially training staff within companies to be those identifiers of mental health and that link toward extra help. Would you see something similar to this within the farming community?

[Mary Ann Doré]

Yes, for sure. People need to feel comfortable. This is a baring-your-soul conversation, so if it's someone more familiar to you, that would be helpful. But it's also nice to have someone else to call and talk to if you didn't want to complain to your neighbour or your family member. It's nice to have options in terms of people to talk to.

We've discussed before how having a counsellor on the phone who has an ag background is very helpful. For my husband, there was a long wait to talk to counsellors and psychiatrists. He was able to do it via video conference. He would go to the doctor's office and then talk to someone in a teleconference. He was in a room by himself. I wasn't eavesdropping in the next room. He had all of these things to talk about, and he could really be open. He could talk to someone on a tight schedule, and they could see more clients in a short period of time. I think that's an interesting way to go, especially with people being so remote.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you.

I'll pass this on to my colleague.

[Marwan Tabbara, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Thanks to both of you for being here and testifying.

As the member mentioned, I'm not on this committee, but it's a very interesting topic that we're talking about.

I've been reading this article from the Huffington Post. I will quote part of the article:

If you've idealized farming as an easy occupation, it's not. Farming is characterized by high stress. You live your profession 24/7.

Financial pressures, livestock disease, poor harvest, climate change...can devastate farmers.

We've heard a lot of testimony from previous witnesses. Would you agree with this article that this is a field where we know there are stressors and pressures on farmers, but we are not tackling the issue directly? Are we addressing only the symptoms?

[Mary Ann Doré]

I'd say it's a bit of both. Other than a labour standard making it easier to get temporary workers to reduce our hours.... My husband and I always talk about how we need to figure out a way. There are five of us on the farm. There should be a way not to work 16 hours every day. We don't need everyone there all the time. Why don't we schedule it so that I do the mornings until two o'clock? That's a normal workday. My day should be done at one o'clock, but that doesn't happen. I stay until 6:30. We should be able to do shift work, but whenever you have crops and things like that to work on, it's hard to schedule time. If there were a labour market of specially skilled temporary workers....

There's a young man in our community who is the go-to person. I don't really know where he works; he works everywhere. He helps us and he helps others. He's just the perfect person to have in our community. We really enjoy having the flexibility of being able to say, “I'm really busy this afternoon, so let's just call Carson.” It's hard to find skilled workers with that flexibility.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Madam Doré.

Thank you, Mr. Tabbara.

Eva, we have about five minutes left.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

For me?

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Yes.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

What recommendations would you make to our government in terms of strategies, funding and awareness regarding assistance with mental health issues for farmers?

[Marcel Hacault]

I already made recommendations in my speech.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Can you list the most important ones?

[Marcel Hacault]

The government's role is to provide the strongest possible support and risk management programs to help farmers manage the entire range of income.

It changes each time, and each time, you need to renegotiate with your banker.

The farming profession must also be promoted. Farmers are not just producers of exports that will help Canada.

These families are important to Canada. They're at the heart of food production. They work and take care of their animals, the environment and food safety.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Are there challenges related to livestock farming in particular, and other more specific or difficult challenges related to horticulture?

Which is more difficult?

[Marcel Hacault]

The most difficult thing is probably when diseases force us to slaughter all the herds. In the grain industry, we don't have the same diseases. However, in the farming industry, in particular with beef and pork, a disease can force us to slaughter the entire herd. For the farming industry, this type of stress is different from the stress experienced in the grain industry.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Ms. Doré, do you think that the presence of women in the sector helps to address mental health challenges?

[Mary Ann Doré]

I believe that, generally, we are better at discussing our emotions than men are, but as society moves forward, it's becoming an easier thing to talk about.

When I first talked to my dad about mental health issues on the rise, he sounded like no one had mental health struggles when he was younger, but a lot of people were alcoholics. It's about becoming more aware of what the problem is and having a name for it, rather than just glossing over it and saying things like, "He didn't commit suicide; it was a farm accident." No, it was suicide.

I think the conversations are changing. Having more voices at the table is always welcome. I find that women have always been involved in agriculture, but it's only recently that they are taking the credit for being a farmer rather than a farm wife. I think it's a very important change for people to take that position.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Do you have data on the participation of women in the sector?

[Mary Ann Doré]

I don't, personally. I know that more and more young people are becoming interested in it. There's a rise in women in STEM. We are part of that. I think it's becoming more and more accessible. People are becoming more comfortable joining boards.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Feel free to comment, Mr. Hacault.

[Marcel Hacault]

Farm Credit Canada may have some of those numbers. I do recall seeing the changing demographic of farmers. They were showing that more women were actively engaged and involved in farming, but I can't tell you exactly what the numbers are.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you very much, Mr. Hacault and Madame Nassif.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you.