Evidence of meeting #120 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was capacity.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Executive Committee Member, Board of Directors, Grain Growers of Canada
Yes, I think this will be the test of the bill, when something does go sideways.
Executive Committee Member, Board of Directors, Grain Growers of Canada
I'm encouraged by the wording in the bill and that, but our worry is what will happen when this actually, one day, does happen. Hopefully it never will, but if it does happen, we're wondering how this is going to work through the bill. How does it apply and who does it? There are a lot of questions on my mind as a producer on how Bill C-49 is going to work when something does go sideways.
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
Thank you. That's on my mind as well.
We're looking at the G3 investments of the loop-track system that's going in there. We talked about loop tracks in the previous testimony. We travelled as a committee and we saw some loop track in Saskatchewan. It sounds like this is a game-changer.
In terms of trying to increase capacity, you can only add so many cars to the system, as you're saying, so many locomotives. You still have to set a track that you have to move product on, but there's an inefficiency in spotting of cars that loop tracks could provide some efficiencies on, as well as some private ownership of cars. Could you maybe talk about the opportunity with loop tracks?
Policy Manager, Canadian Canola Growers Association
That is today's example of a game-changer, introducing a step function change in the supply chain.
Certainly I think we need to bear in mind that the history of western Canadian grain has been that of an evolution, going from several 1,000-odd wooden cribs, then in the seventies and eighties moving toward the high throughput concrete elevators, and now that loop track with high throughput elevators. It's just that next change.
Unfortunately, when you have 340-odd licensed primary elevators in the country, if you have a dozen of those.... We're moving in the right direction, but you still have companies that have 70 or 50 elevators. You need that space requirement—the 60 acres or whatever it is—to put that footprint down. I think we're seeing it, it's the vision, it's where we want to go, but it's going to take some time to get there as a system.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you, Mr. Pratte. Thank you, Mr. Longfield.
Now it's Mr. MacGregor for six minutes.
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Thanks, Mr. Bishop and Mr. Pratte, for appearing today. I'm already noticing a bit of a contrast from testimony we heard in March. It seems to be a little bit more hopeful and optimistic, with the caveat that we still have the majority of winter coming our way.
Mr. Pratte, in your opening remarks you noted that the reporting that is now mandated under Bill C-49 could use further refinement.
Mr. Bishop, you also mentioned that you needed to see more details from railways on their planned minimums. Are these two related in terms of the more data you'd like to see?
Policy Manager, Canadian Canola Growers Association
I'd say, yes. We'll mention quickly just some credit to the railways. They did reach out proactively to the grains sector and we discussed as a group, and then independently with people, about what should be in the reports. They did incorporate some of the suggestions of the grains sector, meaning from farm to shippers.
The point about refinement was—and Dave did touch upon it—for the actual planning purposes, just a little bit deeper understanding, like the idea perhaps of even just highlighting corridor movement. I can understand some tension between commercial entities wanting to talk about their operational planning, but it's just a slightly deeper sense of what they planned to do. They have their plans, they knew what they were going to do as far as their operational planning and forecasting is concerned, but there's just that slightly deeper dive into the thoughts. What we have in front of us is good, and I did say what we have now, in dialogue and on paper, is night and day from what we had five years ago.
Policy Manager, Canadian Canola Growers Association
Executive Committee Member, Board of Directors, Grain Growers of Canada
Yes, I'll echo that. We really are encouraged with the communications we've been having with the railways. It's really been delightful and enlightening to do that.
By the corridors, that's where we see we don't have enough information. You can ship grain if you take it right off the centre line and get a lot of it shipped in a hurry, but like I was saying, the farther out you're away from the rail line and those terminals, the more you get served last. When I say corridors, that's why we want a wholesale plan showing where it's getting shipped from, to make sure there's pretty even shipment. Like I said, I'm lucky. I'm in the central area where the railway is. I can move pretty easily but some of my farmer friends farther away aren't as lucky.
You were talking about loop tracks and that, and I'm fortunate enough that G3's building a terminal 10 miles from my place. That is the wave of the future on new builds at the moment. There will be something else probably in another 10 years that will help out on that, too.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Mr. Pratte, back in March we heard from Rick White. He said that the relationship with Japan had been substantially shaken following the 2013 crisis, stemming from the reliability of our ability to deliver canola to Japan. He said that they also meet twice a year, and that it came up at every meeting.
I assume you've probably had some meetings since March. Is there anything to report from customers in Japan?
Policy Manager, Canadian Canola Growers Association
Yes. I was not there personally, but it's a timely question because they literally just got back from that last week. They were over there. Japan has been the longest, most consistent buyer of Canadian canola seed for decades—consistently two million tonnes, every year.
My understanding of the situation is that the good-news story that the Canadian government and exporters have been able to tell those customers has rebuilt some of the confidence that was shaken by the situation five years ago.
From the general agenda and what's been discussed at those meetings, I think the transportation piece is becoming less of an issue and it's moved into other things.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Mr. Bishop, when Jeff Nielsen was here in March, he had been in the room listening to CN and CP Rail's plans at the time. I had asked him at the time if he felt very optimistic. In summary, he basically said no, and then underlined that Bill C-49 was really needed.
We did make an attempt to get the railway provisions of that bill sped through as quickly as possible. That being said, it's all done and dusted now.
With respect to the interswitching provisions, have you noticed any improvements or is it too early to tell?
Executive Committee Member, Board of Directors, Grain Growers of Canada
At the moment, to my knowledge, nobody has applied for interswitching. The railways could answer that better than I could.
As long as shipping is good, I don't think you'll see it used. I think if there comes a time when there is a delay for some reason, especially in the southern Prairies, the interswitching will likely be used. That's one of the things we're waiting to see with Bill C-49—all this stuff that's been implemented.
I appreciate the Senate amendments. They were really needed and I congratulate you guys on getting that all done.
Everything is going pretty well right now. In my mind, we'll see how good the bill really is when we have something go wrong
Executive Committee Member, Board of Directors, Grain Growers of Canada
Yes.
Liberal
Liberal
Joe Peschisolido Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Mr. Chair, thank you.
Mr. Pratte and Mr. Bishop, thank you for attending.
From you testimony it seems as if there is harmony building among you, the shippers and the railways. I think that's a good thing.
You seem to have issues with the ports and the terminals. You both—Mr. Pratte, and Mr. Bishop in particular—made the distinction between the terminal operators at the port of Vancouver and the port.
Mr. Pratte, I believe you talked about Prince Rupert. Can you elaborate on what issues you do see at the port of Vancouver on the efficient and inexpensive movement of your grain to Asia?
Executive Committee Member, Board of Directors, Grain Growers of Canada
It's too bad the port isn't here to answer some of these questions.
Getting to the terminals can be a bit of an issue because they have the passenger train traffic and the bridge to go across. If a pleasure craft goes through, they have to raise it. There are a lot of issues with movement and getting it to the terminal.
As far as the port goes.... I am not an expert on this, but we were talking about rain. It rains in Vancouver all the time. You can't believe that over the years they haven't developed a system so that they could load in the rain. Any time there is a delay it just goes up the whole stream back to the farmer. You can only ship what you can ship and if it gets delayed somewhere, you're done shipping it until it gets cleared up.
Policy Manager, Canadian Canola Growers Association
Very quickly, my comment about Vancouver.... The next thing for us to be thinking about long term is that last mile. You have the grain companies putting in their investments. You have the railways. Then you have some incremental things going on there for fluidity and some capacity expansion through the gateway collaborative partnership, which received money from the national transportation corridor fund this May or June.
We need to be thinking about some of those big ticket items like the Fraser River bridge, which the railways have talked about in the past, not only for our sector but also for the nation. The port, and shippers of all stripes, talk about things like the Second Narrows bridge and the Thornton Tunnel. It's a privately-owned asset, but even potentially....
Longer term, if we're going to really capitalize into 2030.... We talk about resiliency and redundancy in the system. As an analyst from the farm community, that is something we need to start thinking about now, however the investment comes around, or however the regulations are refined or red tape reduced on funding some long-term solutions to deal with some of those critical infrastructure issues. That was my point.
Liberal
Joe Peschisolido Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Mr. Pratte, thank you.
Mr. Chair, I will be sharing my time with Madam Nassif.
Liberal
Eva Nassif Liberal Vimy, QC
Thank you, Mr. Peschisolido.
I would like to thank the witnesses for their presentations.
I would like to know what measures you would suggest to avoid the problems of freight transport that happened last winter. Also, what do you propose to improve the national grain transportation system and, as a result, increase Canada's competitiveness?