Evidence of meeting #124 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was agriculture.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Joe Peschisolido Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
So it isn't so much funding, then, as it is the apparatus that government puts there in support of it?
General Manager, Indian Agricultural Program of Ontario
Well, you can't have an apparatus without funding.
Liberal
Joe Peschisolido Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
We spend billions of dollars on the framework agreement. The federal government provides 60% of the funding, and the provincial government 40%. The provinces operate that. How can we modify the framework?
General Manager, Indian Agricultural Program of Ontario
Chief Louis and I went to Montreal recently to speak about past experiences with regard to Growing Forward, now CAP. A commitment to indigenous agriculture has to be part of that framework, and it's not. It's stated, but there's no explicit requirement from the feds to make the provinces deliver those funds in a way that will impact indigenous communities better.
Liberal
Joe Peschisolido Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Okay.
Chief Louis, you talked about a local food economy. Mr. MacGregor talked about Vancouver Island. You're out in the Okanagan. I'm on the south end of the Fraser, and we work quite closely with the Musqueam band. There's a lovely plot of land, 120 acres, called Garden City Lands, and the Musqueam.... The city is working with Kwantlen. They've allocated 30 acres to develop something called “place-based agriculture”. The whole concept is that if you want to trade, all you need is a surplus. You also talked about a variety of types of agriculture.
Is the whole notion of place-based agriculture something that is applicable to you? Does it tie into what you are already doing?
Chief, Okanagan Indian Band
Yes.
When you're looking at place-based agriculture.... I'll give you an example of Seabird Island, just north of your riding. I talked to the vice-president of Sto:lo Nation, Tyrone McNeil, who said that Seabird Island at one time was producing the highest quality of waxed beans and other ones, which were being sold to local markets. What happened then was a consolidation in the early 1970s or 1980s, when canneries and other things were bought up by the major supermarkets. After that, if you asked about wax beans, “aisle six” would be the response. There's no more buying local produce. That affected not only the other local farmers, but also first nations.
When we're looking at agriculture and the benefits there, I think it's important to look at place-based opportunities. It's very important that you look at first nations branding, the ability to brand a product that says it's produced by a first nation, specifically for the international market. If you're canning local produce and other things, those have a longer shelf life than fresh produce, and I think that needs to be looked at.
When you're talking about local opportunities in agriculture, absolutely you need to look at what's in your backyard and the opportunity that exists to either grow it or add value to it.
Conservative
Earl Dreeshen Conservative Red Deer—Mountain View, AB
Thank you very much.
I'm going to start my clock, as Chief Louis did, so I can finish on the six-minute mark.
I've had the opportunity to be a member of the indigenous and northern affairs committee and spend some time going to various first nations all around Canada. You find some of the greatest people who could be CEOs to manage companies. When we look at the things that have happened in your part of B.C., Chief Louis, it is certainly amazing.
One of the things you mentioned was venture capital. If you have a good idea and the right people doing it, then money is available. I know we talked about whether they can borrow against the land they have if it isn't in that particular format, but that isn't what's happening in communities where they have great ideas.
I know that many years ago a bunch of elderly, retired farmers, rather than selling all that land, pooled it together so that young people could have an opportunity to work via that, to get engaged in it. I'm curious whether any of that is taking place in first nations, where they say, “We've built up a decent nest egg here. We don't necessarily need to keep it entirely for ourselves. We could perhaps funnel a little funding into other areas where we feel there are some problems, or we could help them attract venture capital from around the world so they could have projects there.”
I wonder if you could comment on that, please.
Chief, Okanagan Indian Band
Yes, a very good example is happening right now. This was being discussed by the FSIN vice-chief in Saskatchewan, Edward Lerat. One of the things they were talking about was looking at that two million-plus acre potential for the additions to treaty lands, and having that banked to have a system almost like banking that says this is what it's available for. In the southern end it could be wheat, further north barley, and all these other products in there, and looking at international investment. There was, and still is, a very great interest in foreign investment to do such ventures.
We all know about Sprott, a large-scale...26 sections in southern Saskatchewan. That's an example that should be looked at for best practices and what went wrong. But there is a huge opportunity to do that. Our community has about 200,000 acres in the Okanagan Valley that would be perfect for that. With Sto:lo it's the same thing. When you go out on the Prairies especially, you're talking about some very large acreages. Each one of them could be a very good recipient of international investment.
Why isn't there a first nations winery in southern Ontario, Nova Scotia or parts of Quebec?
Conservative
Earl Dreeshen Conservative Red Deer—Mountain View, AB
Again, I know first nations that have really put their heart and soul into these things. They create jobs for young people in their communities, and they create a talent pool that is able to go elsewhere.
Yet, on the other side, we have government programs saying, “Well, these guys are okay, so we won't worry about them. We're simply going to put our efforts in other areas where it's more difficult.”
What I'm asking is whether there's a way for the more successful first nations, which have already gone through the growing pains and so on, to find ways of maybe pushing the government out of the way, so that there is a way to be successful by using the skills that are obviously available from your people.
Chief, Okanagan Indian Band
You bring up a very important point.
I think the best venue for success is to help those who want to help themselves. That's probably one of the best ways you can succeed in something, especially when you're looking at opportunity. I do agree. There was the earlier mention about programs, but there's a very small uptake of these programs.
One of the things I handed out to your group was “Success and Sustainability”, from the Canadian Council for Aboriginal Business. With regard to the recommendations in there, the first one is “Centralize government loan and grant applications for Aboriginal businesses in agriculture on a platform. This could be organized by level of government (municipal, provincial, federal, or by region).” The second one is “Simplify the process of applying for government grants.”
You're talking about people in agriculture, and they're easily frustrated and will walk away.
The third one is “Support the identification, certification, and branding of [first nations] businesses in the agriculture sector and promote these businesses within government and corporate supply chains.”
I would even say to go more so to the international community.
Conservative
Earl Dreeshen Conservative Red Deer—Mountain View, AB
Thank you.
I believe I'm pretty to close the end.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank Chief Louis and Mr. Hall for being here.
I'm going to direct my questions to Mr. Hall. Chief Louis, feel free to jump in if there are comments you think would be beneficial to this committee.
Mr. Hall, your organization is based out of Ontario, and I'm wondering if you're also working with some of the northern communities in Ontario. I would assume that the needs of the northern communities differ from those of the southern communities. Access to transportation, for example, would be an issue for those who choose to grow their own foods. We know that new varieties of corn can be grown in northern Ontario, or so I've heard for a while now.
I'm wondering if you've had some experience dealing with the first nations communities up north.
General Manager, Indian Agricultural Program of Ontario
Not a lot. Our organization is driven by agricultural lending, and a lot of the opportunities in food production that are emerging in the north are not at the commercial stage, or borrowing stage, if you will.
We certainly get inquiries about production on a project-by-project basis, but it's not a huge volume of inquiries.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Going back to the first nations communities you are working with, what innovation are you seeing coming down the pipe that they're working on in terms of first nations agriculture?
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
We've often talked about wineries and whatnot. Is there a reason why they're not getting...?
General Manager, Indian Agricultural Program of Ontario
Well, the most recent surge in interest and expansion is within the maple syrup sector, as Chief Louis mentioned. I'm not familiar with anyone who is engaged in wine production at this point in time.
Our role is really.... We're working more with individual first nations members at the entrepreneur level, in terms of start-ups and business expansions. That's where we spend most of our time.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
You also mentioned in your comments that one of the barriers was access to lending.
Are you mostly working with first nations members who are on reserve or off reserve?
General Manager, Indian Agricultural Program of Ontario
It's predominantly on reserve.
