Agriculture Committee on Jan. 31st, 2019

[Tom Rosser]

Both through the food policy and through other changes to our existing programming, we hope to be able to better support indigenous agriculture in Canada.

Just in the past year or two, we have begun to set up programs targeted directly at indigenous participation in agriculture for the first time, and also at greater participation in agriculture and agri-food from other under-represented groups.

When one talks about the food policy and about food security issues, particularly in the context of northern and remote communities, one hears consistently a strong preference for greater food sovereignty and security in the community, as opposed to simply making food from outside the community, from the south, cheaper and more readily available.

Perhaps Brian can talk about this. I know we already have some partnerships with indigenous communities around vertical agriculture, community freezers and that type of thing. Certainly, again, in northern and remote communities, greater food sovereignty often means greater accessibility of country foods.

We are taking measures in this area already. I would anticipate that we will further them through the rollout of the food policy, but we also recognize that it's a journey and not a destination. While we feel good about some of the progress that's been made, we realize there's a long journey ahead.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Mr. Gray, or even Mr. Traverse, do you have anything to add on this subject?

[Dr. Brian Gray]

I mentioned in my opening remarks our call for proposals for working with indigenous communities. One of the calls was for sustainable northern agricultural production, going into communities and looking at where there were potentially traditional ways of producing local food. Also, this notion of contained agriculture—what we call northern greenhouses—is still an area of development. It's not an area that is widespread, so we're in the process of looking at it.

Our scientists have reached out and they have found some communities that are interested in co-developing this technology. We're in the letter of intent stage. We haven't awarded the projects yet, but we're looking at a couple of northern communities specifically to do this.

One technology is aiming to expand the growing season. You could think of varieties or techniques outside where you could expand the growing season for foods, for vegetables; and the other would be this notion of contained agriculture. It would be analogous to a greenhouse, but it wouldn't be a greenhouse. It would just be something totally contained.

One of the biggest challenges in a community that's off the electricity grid is finding clean, sustainable technologies to do that. The university systems are aware of this, and we're looking at partnerships with them as well.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

I think I'm running out of time, but I appreciate that. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. MacGregor.

Mr. Drouin, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here.

I also want to thank the analysts who did a good job at providing us with a brief on the landscape of indigenous agriculture.

There is a tableau that I've seen—it didn't shock me, but I am interested in learning more. Maybe you don't have the answers, but I think it would be interesting for us to understand. It has to do with farm income from non-aboriginal communities, compared to farm income from aboriginal and Métis communities. I know that, for instance, non-aboriginal farmers will mostly focus on oilseeds and grain. First nations will mostly focus on other crops, maple sap and whatnot.

Do we know, based on those statistics, if the other crops are also export oriented?

[Tom Rosser]

Mr. Chair, I'll look to my colleagues. I don't know that I am familiar with the statistics to which he refers. I would certainly be curious to see them.

What we do know about indigenous agriculture is that we're talking about a diversity of things. There are some very large, sophisticated indigenous-run agricultural operations in Canada that will be export oriented. However, in many cases, indigenous agriculture is much smaller scale in nature. We'll sometimes be directed towards increasing community level food security and food sovereignty.

We're talking about a range. There absolutely are indigenous agricultural operations that are very focused on the export sector, but many others are smaller scale, and targeted more at serving local demand.

I invite Jane, Brian or Mervin to add anything, if they wish.

[Dr. Brian Gray]

Again, there are a couple of areas on the research and development side.

One of the projects that's under way is the lingonberry project. The closest thing a lingonberry is related to is a cranberry, but they're in uplands. They're found throughout the northern boreal forest. For whatever reason, the ones in northern Manitoba seem to have the highest anti-oxidant qualities of any lingonberry.

We have a scientist working on this. Mervin has helped facilitate community involvement in northern Manitoba. The communities are collecting these lingonberries to find out which ones have the super high anti-oxidant behaviour and whether those can then be cultivated. If they can, then this is a great opportunity for some of these northern communities to create a product that I think would have great export value.

Scientists out of our centre at Saint-Hyacinthe were working with a first nations community and business in Quebec on a Labrador tea project. Again, that had health, medicinal values that they were working through, to determine level of certification. They've created a concentrated drink in collaboration with our scientists. Now they're looking at the final stages of getting that product on the market and they see an opportunity for export.

Those are more of the traditional sorts of crops that they're looking at.

Another one is more of a community-based thing that Tom talked about. They are creating pemmican, which is a traditional food. They are drying meat, grinding and mixing it with things to create the most healthy pemmican that you could possibly eat. If that happens, then maybe that's an export opportunity as well.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

We know that one of the pillars that we had highlighted for agriculture was added value. Do we, from the research that's been done and from working with first nations communities, know that there is a lot of added value in their agriculture? I'm assuming there would be, if it's helping to feed their communities, if it's not export oriented.

[Tom Rosser]

When we talk about Canadian agriculture as a whole we have some very successful value-added operations. We see, in terms of growing our exports and the sector, that a big part of it isn't just additional commodity production, but rather adding value. That's true of Canadian agriculture and agri-food as a whole. I would say that it's true of indigenous agriculture, as well.

Again, there is a diversity. There's probably opportunity to grow the primary, commodity-oriented agriculture, but there are, for example, indigenous-owned wineries in British Columbia and elsewhere. Certainly indigenous peoples and businesses are involved in the value-added sector, and that too represents a growth opportunity, as it does for Canadian agriculture as a whole.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I want to ask another question before my time runs out.

When we did the study on food policy with northern communities, it became evident that it wasn't just about growing food in southern communities. It was also about making sure we continue to have access to the traditional foods that the people in these communities have been eating for many centuries.

Are we trying to work with those first nations communities to ensure that they still have access to those traditional foods?

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

On that, Mr. Drouin, you might have to ask your colleague if he wants to share.

We'll go to Mr. Peschisolido for 10 minutes.

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Mr. Chair, thank you and thank you to the witnesses.

Actually, I will follow up on Mr. Drouin's question. Like Mr. Longfield, I was surprised at the extent of my lack of knowledge of indigenous farming. I was moved by a couple of witnesses who spoke about the situation of indigenous communities with respect to food supply in the north.

Would someone like to take this question? I think it's a very important one. As Mr. Drouin asked, how can we improve the situation in the north? What are some concrete steps that we have been taking to deal with what I think is quite a grave situation?

[Dr. Brian Gray]

I can start.

I think the way we approach it is important. I mentioned at the outset the importance of working with the community. This means going to a community, finding one that's interested in this sort of thing, sitting down with members at the drawing board and finding out what exactly they're looking for. Is it self-sufficiency in feeding their community or is it that plus exporting to the south or internationally? Most of these communities don't have an active program so this means working with them and working with our research and development folks to see if these things are possible, whether it's growing something inside or outside.

That's where our calls for proposals are. They're different in the sense that our scientists are saying we found a community that's interested in working with us. We want to go to that community and start the discussions about what they're interested in working on.

In general, I think our approach to the north, whether it's in the treeline or with the Inuit, is to go to the community and find out what they want and what they need. Not all of them are ready or interested in agriculture, but by finding the ones that are, we learn by doing and then hopefully that will spread.

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

It's my understanding now, as Mr. Drouin mentioned, that our policy for food for indigenous communities, other than working with them, is to simply supply them with food from somewhere else.

In British Columbia, where I'm from, there's a movement for place-based agriculture. Mervin, do you think that is an approach that we can use?

[Mervin Traverse]

I want to reiterate the question about indigenous communities and the type of agriculture. There's also the organic part of our traditional foods, such as the bison. We are working with our communities in the west that are very interested in those areas. They always refer to traditional foods. We work with the British Columbia communities. We're very tuned in, even in the Okanagan, to the plantations and the wineries there. They are a pilot project and indigenous people across the country are looking at how the Okanagan first nations have progressed in the export fields. They happen to have the nicest weather and the agricultural land. They're land-based and they've been able to increase economic development in British Columbia. We look at that.

Unfortunately, some of our northern communities—as Brian mentioned, where the treelines are—are always looking for ways to lower the cost of the food. Greenhouses are not always the best option. Global warming might be a major effect that might help the indigenous people in the future. Where there was no agricultural land before, there might be availability in the future.

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

I can't recall if it was Tom or Brian who talked about the indigenous programs found in B.C. Can you elaborate on them?

[Tom Rosser]

The program that was referenced in my opening remarks is an example. It's cost-shared programming under the partnership, so it's delivered by the province but is funded on a 60:40 basis in terms of the federal-provincial cost split. It was just an example of a program. Many other provinces, through the CAP, have programming directed at indigenous peoples and at indigenous participation in agriculture. We also have federal-only programs in that space, which Jane is responsible for delivering.

Do you have anything to add, Jane?

[Jane Taylor, Assistant Deputy Minister, Programs Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

I think I'll just make a quick comment—Tom alluded to this in his comments—about the pathfinder service that we've launched. One of our responsibilities is to demystify and help solve this web of federal, provincial and territorial programs that are available, along with other resources.

Yes, Agriculture Canada has launched some specific programs for indigenous people, obviously recognizing that all of our programs are open.

This concierge service has had a really good response. When a call or an email comes in, we work with that person or organization to help match and find. It could be a program in our department or a program in another federal department, but we'll also look in the province or territory where they're located. I think that's extremely helpful.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you.

Now we'll go to Mr. Shipley for six minutes.

[Bev Shipley, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, CPC]

Thank you very much.

Since I usually run out of time, I'll get right to it.

First, for Mr. Rosser or Mr. Gray, how many new civil servants do you believe you need to fill the need in your department?

[Dr. Brian Gray]

Well, our general goal is that we'd like our population of employees to represent the Canadian population from a diversity lens, a cultural lens. We don't want to draw hard targets just for the sake of hard targets, but if the general population is 4% or 4.5% of Canadians who are...that seems like a reasonable place to start. We're not there. We might have 2%—half—but I think it's helpful.

Again, it doesn't matter which group you're talking about. If you have fair representation, it brings a richness of ideas and a richness of being able to problem-solve. The more representative you are, the sooner you can start breaking down these biases or the ignorance of culture, so that—

[Bev Shipley]

I'm just trying to get a handle also on the percentage. You talked about the north. You must have an idea of the percentage of indigenous who live in what we would call traditional agriculture areas in Canada. What percentage would that be? Do you know?

[Tom Rosser]

Mr. Chair, just to clarify that I correctly understand the question—

[Bev Shipley]

Of the total percentage of the indigenous population that you're talking about, how much of that is in agricultural areas that we recognize in Canada as the major agricultural areas? In my area, I have five first nations in an agricultural area. You have the same in every province.