Evidence of meeting #51 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pigs.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lévis—Lotbinière, QC
Do you know what percentage of the veterinarians in your association specialize in large animals?
Is it 10%, 20%, 30% or 40%?
We hear it said currently that there is a shortage in Canada of large animal specialists, and that this could be a problem in future.
Member, Animal Welfare Committee, Canadian Veterinary Medical Association
I can certainly talk about the latter points.
There is a need for more expertise and advice for the industry on animal health and welfare issues, and a need to ensure that there are sufficient economic incentives for veterinarians to engage in livestock practice and to ensure that they are dispersed across the whole of Canada.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lévis—Lotbinière, QC
You acknowledge that there is probably in Canada a shortage of large animal specialists.
In my region—and I am told that this is the case in other regions as well—it is difficult to obtain the services of a veterinarian who specializes in dairy cows, for instance.
Member, Animal Welfare Committee, Canadian Veterinary Medical Association
Veterinarians, during their education, would specialize in basically livestock or small animal practice. The veterinarians who have taken the livestock stream would have the basic skills to apply to any type of livestock situations. The principles apply to each and every sector. There is always a need for increased specialization in some areas.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lévis—Lotbinière, QC
In your association, are there many veterinarians who work for the Canadian Food Inspection Agency and assess the condition of animals who arrive at the slaughterhouses?
Member, Animal Welfare Committee, Canadian Veterinary Medical Association
Yes. A major role of veterinarians is to assess the health and welfare of animals on a viable slaughter plan.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lévis—Lotbinière, QC
Do those veterinarians have expertise or particular training, or is it their general training that allows them to occupy that type of position?
Member, Animal Welfare Committee, Canadian Veterinary Medical Association
My understanding is that the CFIA gives these veterinarians additional training. You can never have enough training and education on this very difficult topic. Perhaps there's a need for more but they get extra specialist training in this area.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lévis—Lotbinière, QC
Among the veterinarians who occupy such positions at the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, are there some who have not practised for 5, 10 or 20 years with large animals, and who have rather general training?
Member, Animal Welfare Committee, Canadian Veterinary Medical Association
This is a question for the CFIA rather than me as an animal welfare specialist representing the CVMA.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lévis—Lotbinière, QC
We are talking here about the transportation of animals, mainly commercial animals, such as beef and pigs. In Canada, those animals represent 80% to 85% of all animals that are transported. We know that other animals are not moved as frequently. When these commercial animals arrive at the slaughterhouse, it is the veterinarian's assessment that determines whether they are accepted or not. We should at least ensure that those veterinarians carry out an assessment that is fair and equitable for the producer and trucking companies that have the joint responsibility for animal transportation.
When the animals arrive at the slaughterhouse, there is no second opinion. The only assessment comes from the agency, and it does not provide a second opinion to the producer and the carrier. Is that correct?
Member, Animal Welfare Committee, Canadian Veterinary Medical Association
The veterinary profession is a profession. We abide by certain standards. We go through years of education and continual professional development. You should be able to have confidence in veterinarians and their ability to carry out and do this work. There's no reason to have a second enforcement body. You can have confidence in the work of the veterinary profession to be able to assess the health and welfare of animals.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lévis—Lotbinière, QC
So, when the veterinarians carry out their assessment at the slaughterhouse, the trucking company and producer can be fined, but they are not allowed to send a second veterinarian to check whether the first assessment done by the agency was truly fair and equitable. They receive a fine one month, three months or a year later, and it is then impossible to get a second opinion.
Member, Animal Welfare Committee, Canadian Veterinary Medical Association
If there is enforcement of the regulations in the way that you describe, the industry body transporter can get an opinion from a veterinarian on the evidence presented, and this happens quite frequently. We view the appeal cases. We go before the agricultural review tribunal, and I've read most of them. That happens frequently. There is independence and expertise available to industry.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you, Mr. Cockram.
Thank you, Mr. Gourde.
I ask the members to identify to whom they want to direct the question because we have a video conference. This way, Ms. Pippus can know if the question is for her.
Thank you.
Mr. Drouin, you have the floor.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all the witnesses for being here. I appreciate it.
Ms. Hiddema, do you believe that the majority of farmers abuse their animals?
Vice-President, Canada, Mercy for Animals
I think we're talking about farmed animal transportation here.
Liberal
Vice-President, Canada, Mercy for Animals
If you're asking whether we have done undercover investigations in Canada, we have now done 11 undercover investigations coast to coast. In the 11 facilities that we have gone into undercover we have seen abuse in every one of those situations. That abuse has been made public through a video that's available to any member of the general public. As it relates particularly to transportation we did an investigation at a facility called Western Hog Exchange and at Maple Lodge Farms—
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
I believe you also made a video about chickens not too long ago. It was on your website—
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Why is it removed now? It's not there. I checked a few weeks ago.
Vice-President, Canada, Mercy for Animals
It has not been removed.
We did an investigation—
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
It was there, but now it's not there. Is it because of the chicken and egg farmers' press release they put out calling you out?