Agriculture Committee on April 4th, 2017

[Lauri Torgerson-White]

Okay. I'll be very fast.

We did a lot of research, as you can see. I spoke with animal welfare scientists all over the world, the experts on this, including Don Broom, who was the first animal welfare scientist in the world, and Clive Phillips, who's an animal welfare expert who studies transport. Everyone agrees that moving toward something like the EU regulations—not because they are the EU regulations, but because they're based on the most current science—is indeed what's best for the welfare of the animals.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Ms. White.

Thank you, Ms. Brosseau.

Lloyd, I understand you're going to split your time, or are you?

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

We have six minutes, and it's coming up to the top, so I'll share with Mr. Peschisolido.

My riding is Guelph. The University of Guelph naturally has been quite involved with veterinary science. Saskatoon is another place where research is going on. We had some testimony earlier around the different metabolic systems within animals. As a person reading a study, quite often I'll substitute a trip to Florida for me or my family with a trip across Canada for a different type of animal.

Could you comment, Dr. Cockram, on the different biologies in effect, how prone to stress different types of animals are, and how some may be more prone than others?

[Dr. Michael Cockram]

Yes, that's an interesting question. It's a challenge for a regulation to be able to cover that huge variation.

Poultry are particularly susceptible to transportation due to their susceptibility to thermal extremes, whether that's a cold temperature or a hot temperature. Spent laying hens are also particularly prone to handling difficulties, because they tend to have more brittle bones at the end of their production period—

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

What about food intake and being off feed, and off water versus off feed?

[Dr. Michael Cockram]

If the management of the animals during transport was okay, there shouldn't be the need to put so much emphasis on journey times and times off feed and water.

A number of animals, as you've heard, can be transported on long journeys, if it's done well. It's not impossible to do. In Europe, as you've already heard, there are specialized vehicles for animals to be transported over eight hours. They can only be transported in vehicles that are able to feed and water them on route and that provide good conditions for them.

When looking at the regulations, you need to look at where the major risk factors are. Pigs, for example, are more susceptible to time off water than, say, a ruminant would be. As you heard in the evidence earlier today, ruminants and the ruminant animal—

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

The University of Guelph is doing research around water and how much water pigs need, and it is actually raising pigs that don't need as much water.

We are going to run out of time. I'm looking at Mr. Peschisolido, and I told him I would share time with him—

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

If you have six and I have six, we have lots of time.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

—but do you have just a few seconds on that, please, just in terms of research that could be done in order to improve metabolism and improve the distance travel for animals?

[Dr. Michael Cockram]

It's difficult to envisage that you can change the metabolism of a pig to decrease its water requirements. You're better off trying to work out how to provide water effectively during long-distance transport.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

But Dr. Moccia has done that. He's gotten 30% less water into his pig. The “Enviropig” is what he calls it.

[Dr. Michael Cockram]

I look forward to seeing the peer review literature.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Yes, it's peer reviewed. It's out there, because we're looking at.... There's not enough time.

Explain the nature of nutritional metabolic abnormality. How does this impact different animals?

[Dr. Michael Cockram]

A lot. That's quite a difficult term for me to get to grips with, because if you deprive an animal of feed, then it will just try to mobilize its body's energy reserves.

The first energy reserve it calls upon is carbohydrates, and that tends to be stored in the liver. If you look at how long it takes for, say, the liver glycogen to be completely exhausted from a bird, we're talking four hours there. If we're looking at sheep, we're talking several more hours. Then, when it's used its carbohydrates, it goes over to fat and has to burn that off. Therefore, it depends upon how thin or well-muscled the animal is as to how it can cope with that. The final energy resource that an animal has in an extreme situation is that it has to try to burn off its protein, whether that's muscle or even the heart protein.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

That wouldn't happen in the course of their travel. With some animals, poultry in particular, you don't want to slaughter them when they have a full stomach and full bowels. There are health risks at the slaughterhouse and in processing.

[Dr. Michael Cockram]

There's clear evidence that shows that the risk of poultry dying during transport increases linearly with the journey duration and the time without feed. We need to understand more about these relationships. There is a major issue, however, with the transport of poultry and journey duration.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Part of the study out of Saskatoon is looking at that relationship.

[Dr. Michael Cockram]

That is partly true. It's one thing that we would explore together as part of the NFACC committee on code development and science.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

We're looking at outcomes and, as Mr. Drouin said, it's less than 2% failure or death at the end of travel, or unsuitable animals at the end of travel. We want to reduce the number even further. Any changes we do in legislation, we want to make sure they have a positive outcome for animals, not a negative outcome.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Longfield.

Mr. Peschisolido.

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

My thanks to all the witnesses, not only you guys but also the previous group of witnesses.

Your testimony was extremely helpful to my understanding and balanced the need to have a vibrant agriculture industry with the need to take care of the legitimate welfare requirements of animals.

Ms. Hiddema, I agree with you that our agriculture sector is very important. I would take it one step further and talk about the statement of our agriculture minister, Minister MacAulay, that we should be a superpower in agriculture. That includes animals: hogs, chickens, pigs. I was blessed to have the minister in my neck of the woods, which is Steveston—Richmond East. We have over 200 farmers: hog producers, chickens, cattle.

How do you think your proposals would impact the industry in British Columbia?

[Krista Hiddema]

What in particular? Do you mean the costs?

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Would the industry be able to adapt? Are you familiar with the industry in B.C.?

[Krista Hiddema]

Absolutely.

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Okay.