Agriculture Committee on April 4th, 2017

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Do you know what percentage of the veterinarians in your association specialize in large animals?

Is it 10%, 20%, 30% or 40%?

We hear it said currently that there is a shortage in Canada of large animal specialists, and that this could be a problem in future.

[Dr. Michael Cockram]

I can certainly talk about the latter points.

There is a need for more expertise and advice for the industry on animal health and welfare issues, and a need to ensure that there are sufficient economic incentives for veterinarians to engage in livestock practice and to ensure that they are dispersed across the whole of Canada.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

You acknowledge that there is probably in Canada a shortage of large animal specialists.

In my region—and I am told that this is the case in other regions as well—it is difficult to obtain the services of a veterinarian who specializes in dairy cows, for instance.

[Dr. Michael Cockram]

Veterinarians, during their education, would specialize in basically livestock or small animal practice. The veterinarians who have taken the livestock stream would have the basic skills to apply to any type of livestock situations. The principles apply to each and every sector. There is always a need for increased specialization in some areas.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

In your association, are there many veterinarians who work for the Canadian Food Inspection Agency and assess the condition of animals who arrive at the slaughterhouses?

[Dr. Michael Cockram]

Yes. A major role of veterinarians is to assess the health and welfare of animals on a viable slaughter plan.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Do those veterinarians have expertise or particular training, or is it their general training that allows them to occupy that type of position?

[Dr. Michael Cockram]

My understanding is that the CFIA gives these veterinarians additional training. You can never have enough training and education on this very difficult topic. Perhaps there's a need for more but they get extra specialist training in this area.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Among the veterinarians who occupy such positions at the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, are there some who have not practised for 5, 10 or 20 years with large animals, and who have rather general training?

[Dr. Michael Cockram]

This is a question for the CFIA rather than me as an animal welfare specialist representing the CVMA.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

We are talking here about the transportation of animals, mainly commercial animals, such as beef and pigs. In Canada, those animals represent 80% to 85% of all animals that are transported. We know that other animals are not moved as frequently. When these commercial animals arrive at the slaughterhouse, it is the veterinarian's assessment that determines whether they are accepted or not. We should at least ensure that those veterinarians carry out an assessment that is fair and equitable for the producer and trucking companies that have the joint responsibility for animal transportation.

When the animals arrive at the slaughterhouse, there is no second opinion. The only assessment comes from the agency, and it does not provide a second opinion to the producer and the carrier. Is that correct?

[Dr. Michael Cockram]

The veterinary profession is a profession. We abide by certain standards. We go through years of education and continual professional development. You should be able to have confidence in veterinarians and their ability to carry out and do this work. There's no reason to have a second enforcement body. You can have confidence in the work of the veterinary profession to be able to assess the health and welfare of animals.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

So, when the veterinarians carry out their assessment at the slaughterhouse, the trucking company and producer can be fined, but they are not allowed to send a second veterinarian to check whether the first assessment done by the agency was truly fair and equitable. They receive a fine one month, three months or a year later, and it is then impossible to get a second opinion.

[Dr. Michael Cockram]

If there is enforcement of the regulations in the way that you describe, the industry body transporter can get an opinion from a veterinarian on the evidence presented, and this happens quite frequently. We view the appeal cases. We go before the agricultural review tribunal, and I've read most of them. That happens frequently. There is independence and expertise available to industry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Cockram.

Thank you, Mr. Gourde.

I ask the members to identify to whom they want to direct the question because we have a video conference. This way, Ms. Pippus can know if the question is for her.

Thank you.

Mr. Drouin, you have the floor.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being here. I appreciate it.

Ms. Hiddema, do you believe that the majority of farmers abuse their animals?

[Krista Hiddema]

I think we're talking about farmed animal transportation here.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Can you answer the question?

[Krista Hiddema]

If you're asking whether we have done undercover investigations in Canada, we have now done 11 undercover investigations coast to coast. In the 11 facilities that we have gone into undercover we have seen abuse in every one of those situations. That abuse has been made public through a video that's available to any member of the general public. As it relates particularly to transportation we did an investigation at a facility called Western Hog Exchange and at Maple Lodge Farms—

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I believe you also made a video about chickens not too long ago. It was on your website—

[Krista Hiddema]

It was.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Why is it removed now? It's not there. I checked a few weeks ago.

[Krista Hiddema]

It has not been removed.

We did an investigation—

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

It was there, but now it's not there. Is it because of the chicken and egg farmers' press release they put out calling you out?

[Krista Hiddema]

No.