Agriculture Committee on March 21st, 2018

[Hans Joostens]

I think Jan formulated it well. For the sanitary and phytosanitary area, Canada does a country-by-country assessment before authorizing these countries or individual member states to enter their market. From our perspective, as Jan also explained, due to the fact that we have harmonized standards for which several member states can already export a particular commodity to the Canadian market, we expect that there would be trade-facilitating measures that would simplify the procedure, and in particular, now that CETA is operational, it also means that resource-wise we both can relook at this issue to simplify the best use of resources and to trust each other on how this can be facilitated.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Joostens.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Madam Nassif. I have to go to the next questioner, Mr. MacGregor.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to both of you for joining us today. We certainly very much appreciate it.

My first question is in terms of the EU and any specific concerns you've had with the production or inspection of food from trading partners. Specifically with regard to Canada, in the negotiations leading up to CETA and looking back over the last 10 years, say, were there specific concerns with how Canada's standards operate that caught your eye and were a major concern for you?

[Dr. Jan Bloemendal]

No, not really. I think CETA could be so ambitious in our area because there is such huge trust and there were also such good experiences from the past. We were able to conclude this ambitious SPS chapter because of the experiences and the history we have.

Of course, it's obvious that if one party conducts audits and verifies the other system it always finds points for improvement—“non-compliances”, we call them—and we had them in Canada as well, but we were able to discuss them and Canada was able to put corrective actions in place. I think generally we communicate very well, and your industries and your authorities are very highly advanced, so they know exactly what our requirements are, and they are very trustworthy. If they satisfy that those requirements are met, we have a genuine trust that they are met.

Of course, some checks are still taking place for imports at a lower level, by the way, due to the agreements, but still, we have to do import controls. I cannot say that generally we have a systemic problem with Canadian imports—no, definitely not.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

That's good to hear.

Some of the food products in the European Union are specific to certain geographic areas—I'm thinking of things like feta or Parmesan cheese—and only products made in those specific areas are allowed to carry a certain name. Is that requirement attached to Canadian products being exported to the EU? Are we not allowed to use certain names because the products come from a specific geographic region in the EU?

[Dr. Jan Bloemendal]

I'm sorry to say this, but this is not an SPS measure. I know that these geographical indicators are very important on the EU side, but I think the two of us are not.... I don't work in this area so I cannot say anything about it.

Hans, I don't know whether you can respond.

[Hans Joostens]

Yes, it's not our field of competence, but as you know, under the CETA we also talk about geographical indications, which are recognized under the agreement specifically for the EU and vice versa for Canada. Where there is an overlap of using the same name or branding, there is a modus under CETA that has been worked out whereby they can coexist beside each other in the market. There are modalities provided under the agreement in order that this trade can continue to take place under certain conditions, which are laid down there.

For these technical details, I cannot help you further, but there is something in the agreement.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

I'll bring it back to a subject area that you're probably more comfortable with. It deals with the subject of food fraud. What measures or initiatives has the EU taken to combat food fraud? Are there any notable cases? We've had our issues—I think every country has—with food fraud, with food that is mislabelled and sold under a different guise. I'd like to hear some of your thoughts on that.

[Dr. Jan Bloemendal]

In the commission, there is a unit dedicated to investigating possible frauds and to act accordingly. What is extremely important in the case of food fraud is direct communication: directly informing each other in case there might be something wrong and some fraudulent actions might going on. The information exchanges have been improved. Also, the controls have been intensified, particularly the risk-based ones. There, where possible fraud might occur, controls have been intensified.

There is an intelligence unit ongoing that is trying to get to where fraudulent actions might occur, but the thing with fraud is that it is off the radar. The challenge is to get it on the radar as soon as possible. We have colleagues who are really dedicated in that area and are working in that field on a daily basis. That's more or less what we've done. A lot of it is about communication and informing each other immediately.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. MacGregor and Mr. Bloemendal.

Mr. Longfield, you have six minutes.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair, and thanks to both of you for staying up late to talk with the Canadians today.

I come from the riding of Guelph, which has an agriculture university and a veterinary college. We have research in the areas of GMOs. I heard you comment on GMOs during your presentation, but there might have been a shuffle of paper, because I wasn't able to pick up what you said about GMOs between Canada and EU.

[Dr. Jan Bloemendal]

What I said about GMOs is that once third countries submit applications for certain GMO events to get access to the EU, those applications first have to be evaluated—assessed—by the European Food Safety Authority, EFSA. Only once EFSA defines that the application is in accordance with our safety regulations does it go through the risk managers to the European Commission and the member states, and then the European Commission may make a proposal for accepting or approving the event. There is a comitology procedure, as we call it, and then the proposal is on the table and the member states, by a qualified majority, have to adopt the proposal in order to get it authorized.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you. So there is a process that we need to align with through CFIA?

[Dr. Jan Bloemendal]

Exactly, and it goes well. Also, let me say that for GMOs there is a biotech dialogue already, one that has been ongoing for many years, between experts on your side and experts on our side, which will continue under CETA. It's in accordance with I think chapter 25 of CETA. It's a biotech dialogue where these things are being discussed in technical detail.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

Early in the discussions, there were disputes around how our slaughterhouses wash carcasses. We have the Cattlemen's Association in Ottawa tonight. They might be interested—I'm definitely interested—to know what is the current state of the carcass washing and whether we've been able to align our processes with your requirements.

[Dr. Jan Bloemendal]

The carcass wash is another thing that may also be authorized in the same way as a GMO: after a risk assessment by EFSA and then a legislative procedure by the commission and the member states. At this point, there are two carcass washes allowed—authorized—with lactic acid for certain beef products and with recycled hot water for beef and pork products.

I don't think we apply—and it's very well known by our industry—carcass washing on such a broad scale as Canada does. It has very much to do with our culture and also our history. What I've said is that from farm to fork we have the idea that we must control food production throughout the production chain, and that throughout the production chain, food has to meet the safety requirements. Therefore, there is still a strong belief in the EU that carcass washes at the end are not needed because the product is already in accordance with our safety standard—

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Okay.

[Dr. Jan Bloemendal]

—but indeed, meat from Canada imported to the EU has to be produced in accordance with our requirements also in this area.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Is there further work needed there? We're washing with chlorine. You're washing with acid. Is there something as legislators that we need to know about in terms of regulations?

[Dr. Jan Bloemendal]

This is a very short answer. As soon as you produce for the EU market, only those washes are allowed that are allowed in the EU.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Okay.

I have a bit of time left. I'm wondering about the traceability systems and whether you've looked at blockchain in the EU, whether blockchain has entered the agriculture markets yet. It's something that's very early in Canada that some people are talking about. Is the agricultural industry using blockchain at all?

[Hans Joostens]

According to my knowledge, no, and certainly not in new legislation. We see that in supermarkets they want to go and walk this route. I saw something in the media by the Carrefour supermarket that they are thinking about launching this process, but it's not generalized in the EU.