Evidence of meeting #92 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was products.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Jan Bloemendal  Director General, Health and Food Safety, European Commission
Hans Joostens  Director General, Trade, European Commission
Tom Rosser  Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
Marco Valicenti  Director General, Sector Development and Analysis Directorate, Market and Industry Services Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
Brian Gray  Assistant Deputy Minister, Science and Technology Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

Good afternoon, everyone.

I would like to welcome you to the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food.

Welcome, everyone.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we're studying the role of food inspection agencies in the context of free trade agreements.

Today we are certainly happy to have with us Mr. Jan Bloemendal—I hope I pronounced the name right—the European Commission's director-general for health and food safety, of course by video conference from Brussels, Belgium.

Welcome, Mr. Bloemendal.

We also welcome Mr. Hans Joostens, director-general, trade, also by video conference from Brussels, Belgium.

Can you gentlemen hear us okay?

3:30 p.m.

Dr. Jan Bloemendal Director General, Health and Food Safety, European Commission

Yes. It's very good.

March 21st, 2018 / 3:30 p.m.

Hans Joostens Director General, Trade, European Commission

It's perfect.

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

We certainly appreciate this. I think it's nine o'clock there now?

3:30 p.m.

Director General, Health and Food Safety, European Commission

Dr. Jan Bloemendal

No, it's only 8:30 in the evening, so it's no problem at all.

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

We certainly appreciate your staying later to accommodate us as a committee. We're certainly happy to have you. We generally start with an opening statement, so for whoever wants to go ahead, you have up to seven minutes to talk about how it works in your country.

Thank you.

3:30 p.m.

Director General, Health and Food Safety, European Commission

Dr. Jan Bloemendal

Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here, honourable members of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-food. Thank you for allowing us to present the EU food safety system to you. It's an honour for us.

My name is Jan Bloemendal. I'm indeed in the DG at the European Commission—the directorate-general for health and food safety—and my colleague Hans Joostens is in the DG for trade. We both are in areas focusing on international relations. We have an SPS background, so we will be happy to try to answer your questions afterwards, but we are not really experts in any particular area. We broadly cover the whole SPS field.

We are proud to present the food safety system to you. Thank you for asking us to do so.

We have a system that is applied throughout 28 member states and controlled in compliance with harmonized and uniform rules and procedures set by the European Commission and the authorities of the member states. There is in the EU one single system of rules and controls that applies throughout the whole EU.

We are really happy to be here now also in view of the provisional application of the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement that entered provisionally into force in September last year, under which we will be further cementing the excellent relations already in place between Canada and the EU.

Can you hear me well? I'm not speaking too fast?

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

We can hear you clearly. Thank you.

3:30 p.m.

Director General, Health and Food Safety, European Commission

Dr. Jan Bloemendal

Indeed, the European Union and Canada are privileged partners. We have a long history in information exchange but also in trade. The EU as such, with a market of 500 million consumers, is a significant market for Canada.

The EU is the world's largest importer of agriculture and agrifood products. In 2016 we imported products worth 163 billion euros, 16% of the world's total agriculture and agrifood imports.

This provides reasonable opportunities for Canada. We are Canada's fourth-largest export market for agriculture and agrifood, with opportunities for further growth for your farming industries and your agriculture sectors. There is already important trade ongoing between the two parties. In 2016 Canada was our ninth top destination for agrifood. You are the 16th exporter/supplier of food to the EU, and there was already important trade ongoing before CETA entered into force.

We are both veterinarians. We are working in the SPS area, the sanitary and phytosanitary area, and we have as a basis there the WTO SPS agreement, which indeed forms the basis for our requirements. It applies to us in the EU, but also to our colleagues in Canada. This agreement has been in force since 1995. CETA again affirmed the obligations and the rights under the SPS agreement.

We already have had really good historical co-operation. There has been a veterinary agreement between Canada and the EU since 1999. That has been beneficial for both sides.

There are quite a number of areas in the SPS field for which we have recognized equivalence. This means that both sides' requirements allow for the same level of SPS protection, and the production of food should in that case be in accordance and compliance with the exporting country. If your industries export products to the EU in areas for which we have recognized equivalence, they only have to comply with Canadian rules and not the EU rules, because they provide the same level of protection. This is really beneficial for our industries. This concerns meats, but also bovine semen and fishery products.

Also, under the vet agreement, we apply a recognition of each other's regionalization decisions in times of disease outbreaks. In times of such outbreaks, we design certain areas for which restrictive measures apply. By recognizing these measures, we allow the continuation of trade from the free areas, which is again extremely beneficial for industries.

Under CETA we will be further building on those agreements and achievements, but now, with CETA, we have also included plant elements, phytosanitary elements, and also other food aspects. This is excellent timing, because the first meeting of the joint management committee on SPS will take place next week. We will be with you in Ottawa next week, where the meeting will be hosted by our counterpart, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency.

I hope I have some minutes left to give you a very short introduction to this food safety system. We had a major overhaul of our regulations early this century after significant food crises hit the EU in the 1990s, notably on BSE and dioxin. At that time, the EU adopted the “General Food Law”, by regulation 178/2022. That sets a number of basic principles that are reflected in all the food regulations established since the general food law.

I was really pleased to hear last year in Geneva that when Canada presented its “safe food for Canadians” regulations they had also been making use of the principles of our general food law, so we are helpful for both sides.

After these food crises in the 1990s, we were facing EU consumers who had lost confidence in the safety of EU food, but also in the industries producing this food and in the public authorities overseeing the food production. There was really a loss of trust among our consumers. With the general food law we set some basic principles, including the following ones.

We apply an integrated approach from farm to fork, from stable to table, animal origin or not, and we include all food, including animal feed. It means that food products have to be controlled and have to be safe throughout the production process. We do not believe in cleaning up the final product when it gets contaminated during the production process. It should be safe and controlled throughout the food production process at all stages.

Another important element is that food business operators are primarily responsible for the safety of their food. Food business operators must have a dedicated control system in place. We call them hazard plans. They need to know where contaminations may occur, and they have to control these. Further, they have to apply full traceability. They must have a system in place that makes it possible to follow food products throughout the production chain, backwards and forwards. If they are confronted with a contamination, they have to know where they got their raw products from, but they also have to inform their customers that there might be a problem with the products they have received. That is full traceability.

Another very important element is that SPS measures in the EU—measures in the sanitary and phytosanitary area—are fully science-based. To that end, we established the independent European Food Safety Authority back in 2002. EFSA produces risk assessments by making use of scientists all over the world and all the relevant scientific information that is available, and it conducts this work in full transparency. Any opinion is published, and it's known which scientists have contributed to the opinion and also which information has been used to be able to issue that opinion.

Further, risk management, the taking and enforcing of measures, lies with the European Commission together with the European Parliament and the authorities of the 28 member states. They are politically responsible and accountable.

Also, we've have recognized the precautionary principle, already established by the Montreal protocol at that time and by others, in order to prevent risks to the safety of consumers in case scientific evidence is lacking.

As well, a very important element also countries outside the EU is that products exported outside the EU at least have to meet the requirements applicable in the EU; they may not be of a lower standard. Every product produced in the EU and exported has to at least meet the requirements applicable in the EU.

Another huge achievement in the EU with our 28 countries is that we have one single open market, which allows free trade of goods, people, and services within but also between the 28 member states. All agriculture products are produced and controlled in accordance with harmonized rules set at the EU level, and the same standards apply in every EU member state. Also, national authorities are performing their controls in compliance with EU-established control rules. When a product leaves the member state and arrives at another member state, it's not again controlled; it is already meeting the EU requirements, and member states trust each other.

I have some words about the legislative process. I think it's particularly important and relevant for you.

The EU legislative process is based on two principal treaties, those being the Treaty on European Union and the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, as amended most recently by the Lisbon treaty.

These three treaties are binding agreements between member states and determine that secondary sources of law such as the general food law, but also the newly established official controls regulation as well as the newly established animal and plant health law, are directly applicable and enforceable in all member states, and that further transposition into national law is not a requirement. If we establish EU regulations in Brussels at the EU level, they are directly applicable in every single member state.

Our legislative procedures lay the initiative for new legislation or amendments to existing rules with the commission. Only the European Commission has the right of initiative. The adoption of legislation, however, takes place in coordination with the European Parliament and the Council of the EU, in which the ministers of the member states come together.

As a next step, we then have delegated and implementing acts that amend, supplement, or implement secondary legislation, which the commission can take themselves in cases of non-essential rules or after endorsement by the member states by voting via comitology procedure: for instance, in the case of the authorization of GMOs, but also if we would be allowing pathogen reduction treatments.

With respect to trade of agriculture products between the EU and Canada and the SPS measures that apply to these, it's good to emphasize that also with CETA both sides maintain their standard-setting rights. CETA is not forcing us to lower our food safety standards. That obviously applies to both sides of the ocean.

However, the information exchange that takes place under CETA—the regular meetings of experts and scientists and our future co-operation in international fora like the OIE and Codex Alimentarius—should make the agreement, CETA, an additional tool to overcome non-tariff measures there where possible.

Our system of one internal market also means that the EU applies one single set of import rules. All import requirements are set at the EU level, which means that any Canadian product that meets these rules undergoes only one import check and then may be freely traded throughout the 28 member states, so the internal market is also a major advantage for our trading partners and for your industries.

For the EU, the implementation of CETA is the opportune moment to apply a reciprocal system via vice versa, meaning that EU products that meet Canadian requirements should also be allowed into the Canadian market regardless of where they are produced. We are requesting Canada to refrain from authorizations at the member state level. Under CETA, it should no longer be acceptable that some parts of the EU would remain excluded from the advantages and benefits the agreement provides and delivers. A political agreement to this end was made some years ago with respect to meat and CETA articles foresee this in its imminent application, and also for phytosanitary products. Therefore, the EU has high expectations from CETA, and we look forward to our first meeting next week.

I hope this short presentation will gave you a bit of an overview into the EU food safety system and the way it is applied and controlled throughout 28 member states to the benefit of not only our own consumers but also the many consumers outside the EU, including those in Canada. Again, I cannot stress enough the excellent relations we already have with Canada in the SPS area with our long shared history and the eagerness with which we look forward to our upcoming work. On our side, we think that our corporations should be an example for other countries, too, and a proof of how mutual trust and co-operation may benefit both sides' consumers and industries.

Again, thank you very much for the attention. We are happy to try to address questions you may have.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

Thank you very much, Mr. Bloemendal. With respect to how we will function, we have all three parties from the House represented here, and there will be a series of questions. It's really more of an exchange of information.

We will start with the Conservative side.

Monsieur Luc Berthold, you have six minutes.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

First of all, let me thank you for accepting the invitation to answer questions from Canadian parliamentarians. We greatly appreciate it, especially since the Canadian agriculture sector also has a lot of expectations regarding the free trade agreement that we signed with the European Union, or EU.

The possibility of having exchanges with you today shows that, in the future, our links will surely be strengthened, and we will have to work together because we hope that what we are going to produce here will be increasingly consumed throughout the European Union.

Here are the initial questions I wanted to ask you. I want to situate myself so that I can make a bit of a comparison with what is happening here in Canada.

The European Union is an integrated market with a large number of consumers, and the European Commission is responsible for legislation and enforcement. How does field inspection work? The borders of the European Union are still quite extensive. Who is responsible for inspecting food, deciding whether a food is acceptable and whether it meets standards or not?

3:45 p.m.

Director General, Health and Food Safety, European Commission

Dr. Jan Bloemendal

Our member states have national authorities in place that control and oversee their food safety systems. They have to ensure that their controls are in compliance with agreements, with legislation, that we have made at the EU level.

With respect to imports of more sensitive products, such as veterinary products, they have to enter the EU via border inspection posts and are there controlled by inspectors at our borders. These border inspection posts are directly overseen by the European Commission.

Member states do have their own control authorities, control bodies, but within the commission, within DG Santé, we have a dedicated inspectorate that performs audits in the member states to check and evaluate whether they comply with our EU rules. These controls result in reports either with or not with recommendations, which recommendations have to be followed up by the national authorities. These reports, their recommendations, and the corrective actions that are put in place by the member states are published.

I have one more remark, and then maybe Hans wants to add something. What I said in my presentation is that the primary responsibility lies with the industry. The industry has to have internal control systems in place and have an analysis of critical control points, which our Canadian colleagues know very well. They have to do the first checks. They have to ensure that the food they produce is safe, and then there are the authorities at the national level and then at the EU level to oversee whether products meet our requirements.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Is there an accreditation process? How does it work?

We get a lot of questions from producers, especially from small producers. They tell us they have good products and want to export them to Europe. But we tell them regularly that it's too complicated and that it's very, very difficult to get products approved and to access the European market. People also lament the fact that the export costs are very high.

Is this a myth? Is access to the European market a complicated process that will have to be taken into account as a result of the new agreements we have just concluded?

This could perhaps guide your discussions next week.

3:50 p.m.

Director General, Health and Food Safety, European Commission

Dr. Jan Bloemendal

This is a perception, which is always dependent on various.... I mean, we may have totally different views than people on the Canadian side do, obviously, and I think that's true for many areas. Therefore, it's extremely good and helpful that we meet often to inform each other about what the situation is and what the problems are, etc. and also to provide further information on how that should be and what we expect, etc.

In the EU, we ourselves feel that we actually have a very liberal and very clear input regime. We have one set of input rules that actually applies to the whole world. If any country outside the EU can meet these input requirements, it can access our markets. That is different from some other countries, which define their input rules according to the situation in the other country. Also, because of our union with 28 different countries, we have one single set, and if you are able to meet that, you can enter the European market.

Our input requirements are laid down in certificates that have to be issued and certified by the authorities of the exporting country. We do have high food safety standards in place, obviously, and you have to be able to meet them, but generally, I think, Canadian establishments and companies are very well capable of meeting our standards. They are not all the same, and that's obvious, but they are clear, and once you can meet them, you can trade.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

Thank you, Mr. Bloemendal.

Now we will change over, but before we go on, I want to remind everyone that we will need about five minutes to approve the budget from the last meeting. I'll save five minutes at the end, because we do have bells in the second hour.

Eva Nassif now has the floor for six minutes.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Eva Nassif Liberal Vimy, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would also like to thank the witnesses for their presentation.

To what extent does the Canadian Food Inspection Agency work with other organizations? Does it communicate the information directly during free trade negotiations? Are there restrictions?

3:55 p.m.

Director General, Trade, European Commission

Hans Joostens

Can you repeat the question? It's not so clear.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Eva Nassif Liberal Vimy, QC

To what extent does the Canadian Food Inspection Agency work with representatives from Canada and the European Union to share information directly during free trade negotiations? I'm also asking if there are any restrictions. Can you tell us about it?

3:55 p.m.

Director General, Health and Food Safety, European Commission

Dr. Jan Bloemendal

As I said, we already have a long-standing relationship, and I think a very good one, and we share a lot of information. I don't know all the information available on the Canadian side and whether they share everything with us, but our feeling is that Canada is a very trusted and very well-regarded trading partner and that both parties apply maximum openness and transparency. If there is something relevant and important for the other party in any case, that party is immediately informed.

I've already said some words about this, but this is really important. In the case of disease outbreaks, of course we have to safeguard the other party from becoming infected as well, so we immediately take measures to restrict the infected area, and we inform Canada in the first instance, immediately, so that Canada knows what is in the restricted area and that from that area it should not receive any further food, animal, or plant products or whatever. This information exchange works very well, and I think to the benefit of both parties. I'm not aware of any restrictions, actually.

3:55 p.m.

Director General, Trade, European Commission

Hans Joostens

Also, in the multilateral context—for example, the WTO—with Canada we have a very transparent exchange on fine-tuning positions or whatever, wherever needed. Where we have a common interest in the international arena, there is an open communication going on. In this particular area, it can only stimulate the trust and confidence in each other, because we depend so much on each other's systems for our trade purposes. This is working very well with Canada.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Eva Nassif Liberal Vimy, QC

To enter the European market, Canadian companies will have to meet its standards on safety, food additives and other elements. Some companies have already initiated changes to meet all EU regulations.

To export to the Canadian market, have European companies also made major changes to meet Canadian standards?

3:55 p.m.

Director General, Health and Food Safety, European Commission

Dr. Jan Bloemendal

Yes, in order to export to Canada, we have to meet the Canadian requirements, obviously. In those cases, particularly in the microbiological area, for instance, microbiological contamination is an area of huge concern to Canada and also to the EU, but definitely to Canada. For instance, that's a field where we have to take extra measures, where our industries have to take extra measures, to be able to comply with the Canadian requirements and to be able to enter your markets.

It's what I said before: we are not at that stage yet—and we hope we can soon get there—where any EU country has access to Canada. In the current situation, there are still member states that do not have access at all for certain products. For us, that's very difficult to accept because, indeed, we have one single market and one single set of harmonized rules.

For us it's important that any EU member state has access, but then, of course, only after meeting Canadian standards. To that end, CFIA visits our countries and sees whether the industries and the authorities are indeed able to comply with Canada's requirements. If not, they issue recommendations, and these recommendations have to be followed up on.

Definitely our industry has to invest to be able to access Canada, but those who are happy to do so indeed should be able to do so.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Eva Nassif Liberal Vimy, QC

Mr. Joostens, would you like to add anything? No?

I have another question for you. Could you tell us about the main challenges facing the European agriculture industry in Canadian markets?

4 p.m.

Director General, Trade, European Commission

Hans Joostens

If I understand you, the question is, what is the major challenge for European industry to meet the Canadian market?

4 p.m.

Liberal

Eva Nassif Liberal Vimy, QC

Yes, exactly.