Evidence of meeting #16 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was money.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Marie-Claude Bibeau Liberal Compton—Stanstead, QC
I'm getting there. I think that we must put things in perspective.
The AgriInsurance program is designed to help farmers in the event of natural disasters. The AgriInvest program helps them deal with small shifts, and they can access it very quickly. Every year, they put $10,000 into the account and the government matches this amount. The purpose is to provide a cushion that they can use quickly. Half the cushion comes from the government, but the farmers manage the account. The programs are designed this way.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you, Minister Bibeau and Mr. Perron.
Now, we'll go to Alistair MacGregor for two and a half minutes.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Thank you very much, Chair.
Minister, first of all, thank you for acknowledging in your opening remarks the temporary foreign workers who unfortunately died as a result of COVID-19. I can only imagine what's going on for their families far away from here and the pain that they're suffering.
I also want to link this to the federal program that's available. We in this committee all know and producers know that there's $1,500 available to producers to make accommodations for their workers to help self-isolate in this quarantine period. So far, we have had two workers who have died, and there are numerous outbreaks happening in southern Ontario at several farms.
Minister, as it relates to the program that offers $1,500 to producers, is your department analyzing whether this is in fact enough money? Are producers in fact getting enough support to properly isolate workers? How are you taking feedback from these outbreaks, and will you be modifying the program appropriately? In other words, are other measures needed?
Liberal
Marie-Claude Bibeau Liberal Compton—Stanstead, QC
I don't have the right words in English, but it's very sad that we have lost two workers to COVID, and I know that others are sick.
As far as I know, the isolation period is going very well. The right measures have been put in place and the collaboration of the local public health is there. It's more that the risks are higher within the community. This is something that we take very seriously.
I'm working closely with my colleagues—the Minister of Health, the Minister of Employment and the Minister of Immigration—and we're trying to see what else we can do to support. It's a shared responsibility with the provinces and with the employers. Obviously, they have to take their responsibilities.
We care a lot for these essential workers, as we care for Canadians, and we want to be sure that they have a safe place to work.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you, Mr. MacGregor.
Minister Bibeau, thank you for your patience and availability. Sorry about the technical difficulties. We'll see you again soon.
We'll use the rest of our time to continue the meeting with the officials. We'll have a subcommittee meeting afterwards.
I'll now continue the round of questions.
Mr. Soroka, you have the floor for five minutes.
Conservative
Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Canada's food surplus purchasing program—a $50-million fund—was supposed to help redistribute existing and unsold inventories. This was announced on May 5. Over a month later, this program is still not active during the most critical time for farmers.
Matt Hemphill with Potatoes New Brunswick says time is running out for the growers. How much longer will producers have to wait before they see any glimpse of this program being available to them?
Chris Forbes Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
I think, as the minister said, we're hopeful that in the coming days we will be able to provide some of the details on the program, but we've certainly been engaged extensively with the sector as we've developed it.
Conservative
Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB
Yes, but you understand when you're dealing with these commodities that there's a limited time frame for them. I think when they were announced over a month ago that people were quite excited that they could finally sell their product, but they still can't even sell it and there are very big concerns about this.
Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
Yes, we've heard clearly from producers across the country in different commodity groups, and we've certainly been working with them and with the food bank sector. As I've said, and as the minister has said, we're hopeful. In fact, the plan is that in the coming days the details will be provided. We understand the urgency. We've been hearing that directly too.
Conservative
Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB
Okay.
There are an estimated 200 million pounds of Canadian french fry potatoes stuck in storage, and one mushroom farm from Osgoode, Ontario, had to steam off 20,000 pounds of mushrooms last month alone. That didn't begin to account for the additional commodities. How many pounds of food will this $50-million fund buy? Also, how much of that money will be allocated to transportation of these goods and not directly to the farmers facing the loss of these products?
Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
It will depend a little bit on exactly.... We'll look to the sector to provide us with potential approaches to manage commodities and products. We'll hopefully find the most effective use of the $50 million. That's certainly our plan.
Conservative
Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB
Yes, but you see our concern. A lot of times, they bring up how this money is allocated but it doesn't necessarily go directly to farmers.
Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
Well, certainly, I think our goal is twofold in this, right? One is to get the surplus products out of storage and off farmers' books or, if it's in processor storage, the same thing. We want to get the inventory that has cost and is costing people money and redirect it to people who need it. We are trying to meet both goals. That really is our objective.
Conservative
Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB
That's been a big concern for us as well: to make sure it gets out there.
One of the things I've been kind of curious about is how much control the officials and the minister have in comparison to this administration. How much input does administration have towards assisting the minister with decisions, then, in this department?
Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
As with all departments, officials in the public service provide ministers with advice on policy direction. We are obviously not decision-makers in the overall policy setting. We implement as directed by government.
Now, in the administration of specific programs, that sits with ourselves and also with the minister, depending on the size and scale.
Conservative
Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB
Yes. I just wanted to know because it seems that there are times when the minister doesn't seem to be as informed as she could be. I'll even speak on the AgriRecovery fund. We know that there was that money allocated every year, that $125 million. I don't care if the money was spent on whether a disease was the issue or flooding or whatever.
The point is, that money is always there and ready to be used, and it hasn't been allocated in the past, so therefore that's really not new money. At the start, they keep announcing it as new money. That's one of my concerns. I think that's misinformation that's being put out there.
Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
This came up at a previous committee appearance of mine. I must admit that I feel that this is new money. It's not money that we would have spent. Normally, AgriRecovery in fact waits for provinces to launch AgriRecovery programs. It's the provincial governments that unlock it or start the process. In this case, we went out and made this offer.
Conservative
Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB
Yes, but if you had $100 million sitting in the bank every year and you've never spent it, you still have $100 million, let's say since 2008. If you spend a bit each year, then you only top that up each year, so don't be saying it's brand new money when it is not brand new money. It's been always sitting there since 2008.
Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
My perspective would be that if money is incremental, in the sense it was not spent last year, to me that is new. That is additional money, if you like. You may disagree with me, and that's certainly fine, but I guess my perspective would be that it's incremental funding. It's new money. We didn't spend that money last year.
Conservative
Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB
Okay.
On the carbon tax side of things, where are the numbers actually coming from? Did you take the 60,000 farmers across Canada and just divide the money that was used in the carbon costs for grain drying, for instance? Then you're actually manipulating the numbers. Is that a factor in how you actually determined it was such a small percentage to grain farmers when you included poultry, dairy and everyone in there in the same mix?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Mr. Soroka, I'm going to have to cut you off.
If you noticed, I gave you an extra minute, and I'm going to give an extra minute—
