Evidence of meeting #26 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was c-206.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
That's all the time we have for this round.
If I may make a comment. As a greenhouse grower, I bought a boiler from southern Ontario about 15 years ago that burns round bale to heat whatever you want to heat. I heat my greenhouse. Therefore, it does exist. Whether's it efficient, I'm not sure. I bought it from southern Ontario about 15 years ago. It's still in the works. If anyone wants to have a look, it's there.
I just thought I'd throw that in there.
Go ahead for five minutes, Mr. Lehoux.
Conservative
Richard Lehoux Conservative Beauce, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'm going to share my speaking time with my colleague Mr. Epp.
My first question is for Mr. Overbeek.
The average cost to Quebec grain growers is currently $2,000. I understand that this is unfair because you're already bearing costs that your colleagues in the other provinces don't.
If the bill were passed in Canada and everything was in place in the other provinces, do you think the Quebec government would be prepared to take a step toward supporting its producers?
Christian Overbeek
We've already begun discussions with Quebec government representatives to ensure fairness between Quebec growers and other Canadian producers.
So far, we're the only ones paying a tax. If Bill C-206 passes, we'll be looking at another tax, but one that, in a way, will be rebated to us. We'll be resuming our talks with Quebec authorities to secure fairness between Quebec growers and other Canadian producers.
Conservative
Richard Lehoux Conservative Beauce, QC
You say there aren't any other possibilities or options. However, let's consider electricity, which is more abundant and cheaper in Quebec than elsewhere. Have you suggested to Quebec's department of agriculture, fisheries and food that it help you transform your grain dryers into electric dryers and that it establish special pricing for electricity used to dry grain?
I want to come up with a solution. If we introduce national legislation in Canada, I'd like things to be fair for Quebec producers.
Christian Overbeek
Those kinds of initiatives have already been introduced. You can use grain drying and conditioning equipment that runs on electricity in Quebec, but we've realized it requires major investment. You have to adapt electrical equipment so it can generate enough heat in a short period of time.
We also considered using forest and agricultural biomass. We ruled out the idea of using agricultural residues because we want to leave them in the fields to improve soil health and organic matter content.
Conservative
Richard Lehoux Conservative Beauce, QC
That's a wise decision, Mr. Overbeek.
I yield the floor to my colleague Mr. Epp.
Conservative
Dave Epp Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON
Thank you, and thanks to all of the witnesses for your excellent testimony.
I'd like to begin by taking this back and trying to place this whole issue into some sort of context from an economic perspective.
A number of you indicated that as grain producers, you are price takers and that we generally operate in an integrated market. When this issue first came out, the federal estimates were between $210 and $819 per farm. We later learned that was based on the denominator's being all census farms, as opposed to commercial farms, and then we heard estimates more in the $10,000 to $14,000 range coming from the Federation of Independent Business.
I'm going to begin directing my comments to the Grain Growers. Can you talk about the discrepancy between these estimates? In the absence of the passage of this bill, would you expect the Canadian basis, which is a function of pricing in our integrated market, to compensate producers for this additional cost as they incur the carbon tax?
I'll start with the grain producers, please.
Director, Grain Growers of Canada
Sorry, I just want to clarify that. Did you say compensate the producers for the basis change?
Conservative
Dave Epp Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON
Yes. Would the market compensate producers for this additional cost?
Director, Grain Growers of Canada
No, it would work against us, for sure. Obviously, with the negative consequences I had mentioned earlier, the other part of the supply chain not being exempt for all the fuels, eventually our basis is going to widen because of the extra costs for all of the input suppliers, and those costs are only going to go up as the forecast of the carbon tax increases over the next few years. Every year, it seems to me that our competitive equation with our nearest competitor, the U.S., is going to work to a negative. It's going to hurt us.
Conservative
Dave Epp Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON
Thank you.
It was also mentioned by one of my colleagues in the questioning that it would be good from a carbon pricing perspective if we moved forward on an integrated basis—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Mr. Epp, sorry, we're out of time. Perhaps you'll have a second chance.
Now we'll go to Madame Bessette.
Go ahead for five minutes, Mrs. Bessette.
Liberal
Lyne Bessette Liberal Brome—Missisquoi, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thanks to the witnesses for being with us today.
My first question is for Mr. Hodson.
Can you tell us a little more about current sales in the Canadian grain market? What do you think is the long-term trend for the sector?
Director, Grain Growers of Canada
I apologize. I didn't understand the question. I would have to pass that on to Erin.
Executive Director, Grain Growers of Canada
Sure, I can speak to that.
I think with respect to grain prices, certainly they fluctuate. It really depends on the commodity and the market in which you're selling. Certainly some of our growers have faced some significant market access issues, depending on markets around the world—China, India and Italy, for example.
In terms of the future of the sector, like I said, we are securing more free trade agreements around the world, but again, increasingly now we're facing market access challenges in key jurisdictions around the world unlike ever before.
Liberal
Lyne Bessette Liberal Brome—Missisquoi, QC
Thank you.
You just mentioned fluctuating grain prices. Do producers have strategies for taking advantage of that?
Executive Director, Grain Growers of Canada
I would probably like to see if my director, Mr. Hodson, was able to get the interpretation of that question so he could respond, if I may.
Director, Grain Growers of Canada
I obviously don't have the setting right. I'm not getting the interpretation. My apologies. My French is very limited.
Liberal
Lyne Bessette Liberal Brome—Missisquoi, QC
It's okay.
Do producers have strategies to take advantage of the fluctuation of the grain price, because she talked about fluctuation? That would be my question.
Director, Grain Growers of Canada
Do we have a strategy? Obviously, most producers over time, yes, try to develop a strategy to the best of their abilities. It's something that is a learned process, and producers work on it every year.
Liberal
Lyne Bessette Liberal Brome—Missisquoi, QC
Thank you.
My questions are in French. Are you getting translation, or not at all?
Liberal
Liberal
Lyne Bessette Liberal Brome—Missisquoi, QC
Can you explain why there are only some forms of energy that you can use, and is it just because there's a lack of innovation right now?