Agriculture Committee on May 4th, 2021

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

If I understand the clean technology program, about $10 million goes to powering farms for advancing developments. Besides the grain dryers, which was $50 million, specifically, can this be used to reduce costs?

We've heard about the low margins of farmers. They want to be able to reduce costs in many ways. Would this involve solar? Would this involve powering tractors and equipment, as well?

[Matt Parry]

Yes, the funding would be applied in a number of areas. As you mentioned, there is funding set aside. About $10 million was identified in budget 2021 to help move farmers off diesel fuel. About $50 million was set aside for grain-drying technology, and then the remainder would be broadly available for various technologies under development.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I'm not exactly sure which department to ask, but we were talking about the four provinces that have this backstop.

Can you explain what some of the other provinces are doing in this case to support the agriculture sector—the ones that do not have this federal backstop?

[Matt Parry]

I'm afraid I can't answer that. I don't know if any of my colleagues would have information on that. Again, I can take that question back and provide a response to the committee.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

That was my line of questions. I appreciate that, Mr. Chair.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Ms. Pauzé has the floor next if she's still with us.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

I'm back, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Oh! Good afternoon, Mr. Perron. You have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to take this opportunity to thank the witnesses who are here today, since I didn't have the chance to do so in the first round.

I know that this question has been asked before, but I don't believe that we've received a clear answer. I don't know which one of you will answer my question. However, I want to know why the exemption for propane and natural gas wasn't included in the first draft of the Greenhouse Gas Pollution Pricing Act.

We can understand why diesel and gasoline were exempted, since it makes sense for production and other reasons. However, most witnesses say that propane and natural gas are less harmful to the environment and that no other options are accessible or economically viable, despite the innovations being made.

Why wasn't this exemption included in the first place? It appears to be in keeping with the spirit of the legislation.

[Gervais Coulombe]

I can answer first. Mr. King can comment afterwards.

The first thing to remember about the fuel charge is that the rates reflect the equivalent carbon content of each fuel. The use of one litre of propane or natural gas will produce far less greenhouse gas in terms of energy than the equivalent of one litre of diesel or gasoline. The overall architecture of the fuel charge already takes into account that some fuels are cleaner than others.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

I understand your point. However, you seem to be confirming that the most polluting fuels are exempted, while the least polluting fuels are not. Yet the least polluting fuels are essential for drying, among other things. That's what I don't understand.

[Gervais Coulombe]

When the overall policy on the Greenhouse Gas Pollution Pricing Act was put in place, the idea was also to build on the carbon tax model in British Columbia. The exemption included and passed by Parliament roughly mirrors the exemption in place in British Columbia.

In addition, when we had discussions with our provincial and territorial partners, we also had to take into account some provincial systems that didn't exempt any fuel used by farmers at all, and—

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Coulombe. Unfortunately, Mr. Perron's time is up.

Thank you, Mr. Perron.

Now we have Mr. MacGregor for two and a half minutes.

Go ahead, Mr. MacGregor.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Chair. Maybe my question will be for Mr. Parry, with Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada.

I don't really have many more questions on Bill C-206 per se, but I am interested in whether or not the Government of Canada has done an analysis of the carbon sequestration potential in Canada's farms.

I know in budget 2021 there were $60 million dollars allocated over the next two years for the nature smart climate solutions fund, and that's really to protect existing wetlands and help save trees on farms. However, I'm just wondering, overall, whether we have done an in-depth analysis of Canada's agricultural soils and really what our sequestration potential is if we're really going to be depending on them to act as a carbon sink as a part of our overall fight against climate change?

I'm just wondering if you could give the committee an update on that.

[Matt Parry]

It's a very important issue, and you noted the new program that was announced last year as part of the fall economic statement. It's now referred to as the agricultural climate solutions fund, which Minister Bibeau announced in mid-March. The focus of that program is indeed on accelerating carbon sequestration in agricultural soils.

I can't speak to specific numbers. I'd have to refer to a colleague from our science and technology branch for that, but it is commensurate with the level of funding associated with this initiative, $185 million over 10 years. It is identified as a key opportunity for the sector in terms of, in essence, effectively mitigating our emissions in the sector more generally.

It is absolutely a priority for the government, and significant efforts are being made in this area.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

That's it for me, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. MacGregor.

Now for the five-minute round, we have Mr. Epp.

Go ahead, Mr. Epp, for five minutes.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm going to allow Mr. Lawrence to begin.

Go ahead, Philip.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you very much, Mr. Epp.

Mr. King, I just want to follow the line that Mr. MacGregor took earlier.

When we look at the definitions of Bill C-206, to me it's absolutely clear, in fact it's crystal clear—and that's in fact what our parliamentary lawyers have all said as well—that grain drying is included.

If we look, in fact, and we ask, what's the definition of farming, it almost certainly includes the growing of grain. What is “eligible farm activity”? That includes the operation of eligible farming machinery. What is “eligible farming machinery”? It is an industrial machine or a stationary or portable engine.

All of that fits grain drying to a T. I don't understand how you could possibly conceive that grain drying is not included in this, and I think it's just silly to say otherwise.

Mr. King?

[Phil King]

I'm not sure of your question, Mr. Lawrence.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I'm asking you how could you possibly conceive of grain drying not being included in Bill C-206, when it's clearly a farming activity done on a farm with a machine. Are you saying that a grain dryer is not a machine? Are you saying that growing grain is not farming?

[Phil King]

I would say that in putting legislation together you have to be very specific. If this amendment was to move forward—and that's not up to me—then it should be clarified.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

It's clear. It's crystal clear.

[Phil King]

It's not a big deal; it just should be clarified.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

It's crystal clear. In fact, planting is not included in the definition of “farming” in this act, but I think you were going to call and say that planting is. Would you say that planting is part of farming?