Evidence of meeting #33 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was lévêque.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:20 p.m.
Director, Procurement, Raw and Packs, Danone Inc.
True certification must be created, like for organic food, except that we could say it is free today.
More seriously, certification would be needed to ensure that food entering the country meets certain requirements.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Richard Lehoux Conservative Beauce, QC
Thank you, Mr. Bertrand.
Something should perhaps be done in terms of reciprocity of standards for food entering the country. We can impose standards in the country, but perhaps those standards should be met for the many products arriving from outside Canada.
5:20 p.m.
Director, Procurement, Raw and Packs, Danone Inc.
Yes.
For the time being, when it comes to the environmental footprint, products coming from Europe are fairly similar to what we have in Canada. So it is pretty similar, but this footprint can be twice as large in other countries.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Richard Lehoux Conservative Beauce, QC
In any case, this should perhaps be taken into account for imports.
You also talked about the life cycle of your packaging—from its production to the end of its life. What often worries me is the amount of packaging used for our products. Where does Danone stand on this?
5:20 p.m.
Director, Procurement, Raw and Packs, Danone Inc.
The packaging issue is absolutely crucial, and this is not the first time we are working on it. The work is ongoing, and our objective is for 100% of our products to be recyclable, reusable or compostable by 2025. That is absolutely crucial.
We are still trying to get as close to circularity as possible by eliminating packaging and by innovating to use more reusable products. That is absolutely crucial.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Richard Lehoux Conservative Beauce, QC
Thank you.
In closing, I would like to put a question to Mr. Lévêque.
In the same vein, international agreements are often signed for products. How do you view this? Organic agriculture is indeed an option, and I am among those who subscribe to that method, but how can we have better control over the food entering the country?
5:20 p.m.
Part Owner, Jardins de l'écoumène
In terms of international trade, Europe asked, through various economic farming groups, that Canada adopt the organic certification standard, which encourages trade based on a single standard.
So the Canadian standard is recognized by Europe and by the United States. This standard actually applies to all countries that want to export organic products. It helps get what is wanted—a guarantee.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you, Mr. Lévêque and Mr. Lehoux.
Mr. Blois, you now have the floor for five minutes.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Kody Blois Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our witnesses.
I'll start with Danone. What excites me about the opportunities regarding climate change and reducing emissions is the fact that it is not just government but the private sector taking the lead. I'll give a tip of the cap to you guys at Danone for your work in this regard. It really speaks volumes to the opportunities that exist.
We've had the chance, Mr. Bertrand, to talk outside of this committee, and I know you have business holdings outside of Canada. In the United States, for example, you might sit down with a certain farm that has the output and economies of scale to help you get to your side. You're talking about milk and yogourt and other dairy products, and in supply-managed sectors we have a lot of smaller family farms. How do you work in that environment, in the supply-managed sector, to get some of the outcomes on the regenerative side that are important to you?
5:25 p.m.
Director, Procurement, Raw and Packs, Danone Inc.
That's an interesting question.
The principles themselves apply whether you're in a supply-management system or an open system. It's the same science behind the whole thing. However, with supply management, we do not have the direct contractual connection with farmers, so it's difficult to help them directly to cover the first couple of years of these projects—to pay for cover crops, let's say, for the first two or three years—because I will never see any return on the investment of that money. That creates a bit of difficulty.
However, if we could, for a potential project, partner with the government and the farmers' association, we'd be willing to entertain that and test our tools, for sure.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
Kody Blois Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
You mentioned your Silk products and some of the ones that are more plant-based. I assume there isn't necessarily as much of a challenge there, because you can work directly with the farms in that case. Is my understanding correct?
5:25 p.m.
Director, Procurement, Raw and Packs, Danone Inc.
That's right. If it were not for COVID, I would probably be right now in a field of oats in Saskatchewan or Manitoba, for sure.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
Kody Blois Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
When we start talking about the private sector taking the lead, as someone who would identify as a business liberal, so to speak, on the spectrum, that's something that really excites me.
What are some of the suggestions you might have? I have your four points that you raised for the committee—I don't think you need to reiterate those—but in broad strokes, what are some ways in which government can start incentivizing and driving the private sector to take the lead, and government, obviously, in some level of partnership?
5:25 p.m.
Director, Procurement, Raw and Packs, Danone Inc.
I think that if the government makes some monetary investments towards improvement—we put in some money and the farmer puts some money in too—so some sort of.... I'm not sure of the name for exactly this type of—
5:25 p.m.
Director, Procurement, Raw and Packs, Danone Inc.
—co-operative or consortium or whatever. These are great ways to move the needle for sure. We would maybe want to make sure that everybody gets recognized in this partnership.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
Kody Blois Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
I have one last question, which I will put in French to Mr. Lévêque.
Thank you for joining us in committee.
Your testimony mostly focused on organic agriculture. Do you think that is the only way to ensure the existence of environmental standards, or are these just practices involving environmental principles?
5:25 p.m.
Part Owner, Jardins de l'écoumène
It is a bit of both. Standards exist, and specifications are clear and specific on what can be done to certify organic food products. So everything is clear, everything is there and everything is in place.
I think this is the most relevant approach. The organic standard has imposed itself not only in Canada, but also in the United States, in Europe and in Asia. We have been working on bringing organic agriculture out of the margins for 40 years. As for organic agriculture standards and respecting the environment, it is scientifically recognized that practices are established both on a small scale and on a large scale. We must not forget that large businesses also engage in organic agriculture.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
Kody Blois Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
Thank you, Mr. Lévêque.
Mr. Chair, can I ask just one short question? Perhaps Mr. Perron can give me some of his time.
According to you, are organic agriculture practices the same as or different from regenerative agriculture practices?
I'll leave that for another time, Mr. Chair.
5:25 p.m.
Part Owner, Jardins de l'écoumène
They are complementary. Regenerative agriculture does not require certification and looks to use sequestered carbon. However, organic agriculture achieves exactly the same outcome when it comes to carbon sequestration.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you, Mr. Lévêque and Mr. Blois.
You have the floor for two and a half minutes, Mr. Perron.
5:25 p.m.
Bloc
Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Lévêque, we will continue in the same vein because this is interesting.
We have talked about organic research being underfunded. Can you tell us whether, to move things forward, it would be appropriate to provide more funding for research in organic agriculture, which could also positively impact traditional agriculture?
5:30 p.m.
Part Owner, Jardins de l'écoumène
There is no doubt that research must be supported, but so must schools.
Over the past seven years, members of the new generation—those 30 years of age and under—have been taking organic agriculture courses. In any case, that is what is happening in Quebec. So funding should continue to be provided to help young people also have access to more innovative methods in organic agriculture.