Agriculture Committee on May 27th, 2021

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you.

Thank you to our witnesses, Mr. Forbes, Ms. Walker and Ms. Lapointe, for appearing.

As you know, our committee is also studying Bill C-205. We did have the CFIA appear before the committee and express concerns about that bill and whether the organization would in fact have the resources to carry out the mandate that would be legislated upon it by the increase under the authority of the Health of Animals Act.

If we were in a hypothetical situation where Bill C-205 didn't exist, but the concerns that farmers have with risks to biosecurity and trespassers coming onto their property are very much prevalent.... I know some provinces have taken initiatives to address these issues. Can you tell me what policies or plans the federal department is currently engaging in to deal with those two issues, aside from what Bill C-205 is proposing?

[Sylvie Lapointe]

Thank you for the question.

We are very sympathetic to some of the challenges that have been raised by farmers, particularly around mental health issues and trespassing issues. From a CFIA perspective, our mandate doesn't cover those particular areas. We do work closely with industry to provide the capacity to them to develop biosecurity standards, but those obligations fall very much upon them. We continue to support that work.

I would just note that in terms of animal disease—which is what we would be intervening in if something were to happen as that is our area of mandate—to date we haven't seen any animal disease outbreaks that have been linked to trespassing.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Great. Yes, that was something that Dr. Komal also noted.

Mr. Forbes, Humane Canada did submit a brief talking about the other federal options that could be put into place. They suggested providing strong support for the National Farm Animal Care Council's work to create standards and increased engagement with the NFACC in the development of robust standards to meet the expectations of the Canadian public, support for the implementation and verification of adherence by Canadian industry.

Is there anything you can comment on with those recommendations? Is the department actively engaging in any of those areas currently or does it plan to in the future?

[Chris Forbes]

I'm not familiar with the specific recommendations. I would maybe follow up on what Madam Lapointe was saying.

Certainly, these are issues that we follow. We certainly engage with our provincial counterparts on these. For a number of reasons we are trying to make sure that, for reasons of biosecurity and mental health, we look at options to both improve dialogue and, potentially, standards down the road.

This is really a broader industry and federal-provincial-territorial dialogue.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you.

I'll switch gears.

We've already had a discussion about how there was an overall increase in crop receipts, but livestock did decline by 1.9% in 2020. I'm assuming that was largely due to the huge bottlenecks we saw in processing capacity, where livestock weren't moving through the system.

Can you confirm that?

[Chris Forbes]

Yes, I think you are right, Mr. MacGregor.

Obviously, some of the processing challenges, which temporarily shut down a number of processors over the course of the spring and early summer last year, fed into that.

Also, I think we saw, particularly in the beef sector, probably not the same kind of price increases that we saw in other parts of the agriculture sector last year. I think there were some challenges there.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

We did just issue a committee report. I know the government has not yet had time to respond to all of the recommendations we made, but it is very well known that regional processing capacity was a major factor in this.

Are there any updates you can give the committee on how Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada has taken steps to address that, so that if we're faced with another pandemic that shuts down major processing centres, we will not be left in the lurch like we were last year?

[Chris Forbes]

Thanks for that question.

I think there are a few things. We have our existing program. Obviously that, at a scale, can often help with regional processing capacity, depending on who comes looking for financial support.

Under the policy framework we have with the provinces and the territories—but I'm thinking specifically about provinces—value-added capacity is one of the priority areas identified. I expect it will remain a priority for federal, provincial and territorial governments for reasons that you point out and also, often, for reasons of local food supply and food security.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. MacGregor.

Now we'll go to the second round.

Mr. Lehoux, you are sharing your time with Mr. Epp.

You have five minutes.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being with us this afternoon.

My question is for Ms. Lapointe from the Canadian Food Inspection Agency.

Ms. Lapointe, following up on a question from one of my colleagues about introducing spent hens, you mentioned some problems with testing. You also mentioned that you have to work jointly with the Canada Border Services Agency.

What relationship do you have with CBSA?

I would like to go back to the issue of diafiltered milk. In the past, there have been major problems with this at the Canada-U.S. border. It is true that some transits were stopped, but it seems that traffic has started to flow back into Canada quite significantly.

Do you have the necessary means to counter the introduction of products that aren't illegal, but that don't comply with Canada's rules?

[Sylvie Lapointe]

Thank you for the question.

As I said, we continue to work increasingly with the Canada Border Services Agency to address these challenges. This is an ongoing collaboration. In fact, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency and our colleagues at the Canada Border Services Agency have identified this as a priority.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Ms. Lapointe, should we intervene with the Canada Border Services Agency? Committee members have the opportunity to ask you questions. Should we also invite the Canada Border Services Agency to take concrete action?

Is there a lack of funding for border control? The Americans are currently challenging the Canada-U.S.-Mexico agreement. The number of disputes is likely to increase.

Is there a lack of resources?

How could we work better together?

[Sylvie Lapointe]

Thank you for the question.

We deal with CBSA on a regular basis, in the regions and in Ottawa. We are working with the agency on a priority-setting exercise. The issue of spent hens is certainly one of our priorities. We've communicated this to the agency, and I think they're very sensitive to the importance of this issue.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Lapointe.

That doesn't quite answer my question. I would have liked to know a little more about what could be done concretely. There are three border crossings in my riding. I'll discuss this with the people from the Canada Border Services Agency.

I'll now turn the floor over to my colleague.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Lehoux.

I'd like to begin with Deputy Minister Forbes. I again met yesterday with representatives from the fresh produce industry. Again, they raised the possibility of PACA—the Perishable Agricultural Commodities Act—with me.

I'm going to reference a response our committee received under your signature early this January. It was written in response to a question from our colleague MP MacGregor. It said, “Furthermore, the evidence to date has concluded that a deemed trust would have significant insolvency policy implications, and potentially serious economic consequences for the fresh produce industry and other stakeholders.”

Can you please elaborate on the consequences? If they were addressed, could or would PACA become a possibility?

[Chris Forbes]

Thank you for that question.

When we've looked at this, there a number of challenges with the proposals out there. One referenced that the potential consequences of potentially creating priority treatment of one group over another could, in fact, effectively make it more challenging to have creditors. They would be worried about being pushed out of the queue, if you will. I think the worry was more that, by setting them up for special treatment, they could end up being treated less equally, compared with other groups.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you.

I note that, in the AAFC's departmental plan for the year, one of the primary objectives is advocating for addressing some international trade rules and barriers. I'll pick up on the earlier comment from my colleague, Yves Perron. Specifically, which trade rules or barriers will AAFC address within this objective?

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Please give a quick response.

[Chris Forbes]

I would say we would tackle a range of non-tariff barriers and rules. We'd start with our major trading partners.

I think you're well aware of the issues we're working on with the Government of China for canola and also for reinstatement of some of our meat-packing facilities and pork producers. We're working with the European Union on process and on regulatory aspects that might create barriers there. We're working with a range of countries in Asia and otherwise where there may be technical issues, such as access for our grains into countries in Asia.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Forbes.

Thank you, Mr. Epp.

Now we have Mr. Blois for five minutes.

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Of course, thank you, officials, for your expertise and your ability to answer these questions here today.

Mr. Epp talked about when we had the minister here about PMRA. I think it's an important point to raise. He seemed to suggest that Bouctouche might have been closed or that there was something to do with a research station that was closed. My understanding—perhaps this is to the deputy minister—is that it was actually closed under the last government.

Can you confirm, if you have the information, whether Bouctouche was actually closed in these main estimates, or am I somehow getting those two points confused?

[Chris Forbes]

That's a past decision, Mr. Blois, as you referred to.

Maybe I'll also say that there's the PMRA, which is the agency that operates under Health Canada, and there is also the pest management centre, which is part of our science and technology branch at Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada. They work closely together in terms of identifying products—in our case, a lot of the minor use products—for approval and use in Canada.

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Thank you for that.

In terms of the $101 million that was in the budget, Mr. MacGregor talked about some of the impacts we've seen on the wine sector and was asking the minister if it would be possible in the 2021 fiscal year, so to speak. My understanding of that budget allocation—although there are some more details to be worked out—is that it is somewhat in response to, of course, the excise exemption that used to exist for Canadian producers.

Mr. Forbes, notwithstanding the fact that the details are not out and there are not a whole lot of qualifications, is that actual amount less about an emergency program and more about being able to continue to support our domestic producers in a trade-compliant way?

[Chris Forbes]

It is indeed. I think that's an accurate statement. It is certainly about how to ensure the wine sector's long-term vibrancy and to support investment and growth in the sector. Yes, those funds would start in the next fiscal year, which doesn't mean we couldn't.... We will certainly strive to have program details consulted on and clear for stakeholders as soon as we can so that they can have those in advance.