Agriculture Committee on June 3rd, 2021

[Marcel Groleau]

The farmer in the Estrie managed to stop them, as they were only two. So it was easier to limit what they were doing. Only two animals ended up being driven outside the barn. So the damage was limited.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

But there was another case that was reported to us at a previous meeting. Those farmers were a young couple, who had a pig operation for about a year. After the incursion they had on their property, they left farming. That's no real incentive for the next generation of farmers.

[Marcel Groleau]

Exactly.

I would also like to bring up the point by saying that Bill C‑205 is certainly not about protecting farming families. It is about protecting the health and well-being of the animals. I feel that is important, and you in the federal government have the tool with which you can respond. If your response is for the health and well-being of the herd, you will also be protecting the health of farming families.

As for the stress, we as farmers are all concerned that it may happen to us. It's inevitable. No one can predict when or how it will happen, but we know that it can happen to us. We are under that stress as well.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Various dairy and pork producers in Quebec have lived through such experiences. As a group, the Union des producteurs agricoles is very well aware that Bill C‑205 may be passed. Do they look favourably on that?

[Marcel Groleau]

Yes, that is why you on the committee have heard from representatives of Canadian pork and milk producers as well as from other groups. We all feel that it is important to discourage this kind of behaviour, in the interests of health and biosecurity.

We are not opposed to people demonstrating. Demonstrating is a basic right. The right to demonstrate must even be protected. However, it must be done according to the rules and with regard to private property.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Do you consider that the fines currently proposed in Bill C‑205 are enough to have a deterrent effect?

It must be understood that, with what you have told us about Mr. Grégoire's farm, the impact in the area was very considerable.

[Marcel Groleau]

I believe that, if individuals are the target and they are potentially subject to substantial fines, they will think twice before acting in such a way and the organizations in which they are active will not want to put their members in situations that could cause them financial difficulty.

In that sense, I feel that the proposed bill is indeed a deterrent.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Mr. Groleau, you concluded your comments with a proposal. You were talking about the proposed section 9.1 of the Health of Animals Act. What would you like to add or amend?

[Marcel Groleau]

Yes, we would amend the proposed section 9.1 by removing the words “or excuse”. The section would therefore begin as follows: “No person shall, without lawful authority, enter a building or other enclosed place in which animals are kept...” We would take out: “knowing that…entering such a place could result…” because we do not believe that the words serve any purpose. Instead, we would say: “in order to expose the animals to a disease or toxic substance that is capable of affecting or contaminating them”. We would also take out “…or being reckless as to…”

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Will you be able to send us that section as you have amended it, Mr. Groleau?

[Marcel Groleau]

Yes, we have it in writing in our brief. We believe that it makes the interpretation of the section even clearer, as it is essential to the bill.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Groleau.

Thank you, Mr. Lehoux.

We now go to Mrs. Bessette.

Mrs. Bessette, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to the witnesses for joining us today.

Mr. Groleau, let me start with you.

[Marcel Groleau]

Okay.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

In the case of the Porgreg Inc. pig farm, a report by the Quebec Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, the MAPAQ, recently made public by Radio-Canada, reveals that the pigs were living in really deplorable conditions when the group of activists made their way onto the farm. It even seems that an inspector from MAPAQ was sent as a direct response to that incident.

Since you did not mention this in your opening statement, could you please comment on the MAPAQ report?

[Marcel Groleau]

You are right, Mrs. Bessette.

Following that incursion and the complaints that were made, MAPAQ indeed inspected the Porgreg farm and asked the farm to make some corrections to the site. That was done and everything is now back in order.

This proves that complaints to MAPAQ are sufficient and that there is no need to intrude. In this case, there were deaths, diseases, abortions and damages. Clearly, no one is forced to go that far in order to register a complaint and get results.

If a complaint had been filed, MAPAQ would have visited the site and the demonstrators would have achieved the same result.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you.

The Radio-Canada report also mentioned “scenes of horror” in describing the state the pigs were in. In your opinion, would Bill C‑205 reduce the possibility of shedding light on situations of that kind?

[Marcel Groleau]

I would like to clarify the term “scenes of horror”. When the cameras arrived, the demonstrators had already been on site for some time. You would see scenes of horror in any pig farm where 30 or so strangers were wandering around, where the animals should have been fed three hours previously but had not been, and where the doors were open and letting in the cold. So it is important to put that report into context.

Bill C‑205 is intended to protect farms from incursions that could cause problems for the well-being and health of the animals. To be honest with you, I don't think that the bill would correct the situation that happened on the Porgreg farm.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you very much.

When incursions occur on a farm, we see that the farmers often do not file complaints with the authorities.

[Marcel Groleau]

That is correct.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

How would Bill C‑205 encourage farmers to take the steps necessary to make sure that those responsible for the incursions are punished?

[Marcel Groleau]

In our opinion, Bill C‑205 should discourage demonstrators from making their way onto farms. They will have to find other ways to express their opinions, because, if their actions have any impact on the health and biosecurity of the animals or on the farms, or if they cause any damage, there will be significant monetary consequences. There is a deterrent effect. Penalties for traffic offences have been significantly increased and that has had a deterrent effect and led to corrections in behaviour. So penalties are important.

In Quebec, we will continue to work to amend the act dealing with home invasions or farm invasions. In the Civil Code of Quebec, incursions are currently not sufficiently penalized to discourage that kind of behaviour. That would be in addition to the tools we would have under Bill C‑205.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you very much.

If Mr. Correa and Mr. Ference want to add anything, I will hand the floor over to them.

[Darren Ference]

I just think it's vital that we have this Bill C-205. The majority of farmers are passive, so it's hard to get them to lay a charge. They want to farm and they want to be on their farm. They don't want to be pulled away to go to a criminal court while they're calving or they're seeding. It becomes a hindrance, so it's hard to do that.

This will help deter people from coming there. It won't mean that the farmer necessarily has to press the charges, but with the law, charges can be pressed because the law was broken.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you.

Thank you.

I have no further questions, Mr. Chair.