Agriculture Committee on Nov. 26th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Good afternoon, everyone.

It's great to see all of you again. It's already getting dark here. I'm sure on the west coast it's still bright and sunny.

I shall call the meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number eight of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food.

Pursuant to Standing Order 81(4) and the orders made on Monday, April 20, 2020 and Wednesday, September 30, 2020, the committee begins its study of the main estimates 2020-21: vote 1 under the Canadian Dairy Commission, vote 1 under the Canadian Grain Commission and votes 1, 5 and 10 under the Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food.

Today's meeting is being held in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House Order of September 23, 2020. Proceedings will be posted on the House of Commons website. For your information, the webcast will always show the person speaking, rather than the entire committee.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to outline a few rules to follow. Members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. You have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, of either the Floor, English or French. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. This is a reminder that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the Chair. When you are not speaking, your mic should be on mute, and this rule also applies to the Chair.

I would like to welcome our witnesses for the panels this afternoon.

We are honoured to have with us the Honourable Minister Marie-Claude Bibeau.

Welcome. Thank you for taking the time to join us this afternoon to talk about the estimates and answer questions from committee members.

With that, we shall start.

Minister Bibeau, I give you the floor for your opening remarks.

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Joining me today are Chris Forbes, Deputy Minister, Ms. Walker, Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Management Branch, as well as Colleen Barnes, of the Canadian Food Inspection Agency.

Mr. Chair, I'm told that my colleagues listening to us over the telephone line cannot hear us yet. I'm taking this opportunity to pass the message on to the technical team.

Now I'm ready to get started.

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and colleagues.

First of all, I want to thank all committee members for their hard work on behalf of the agriculture and agri-food sector.

I'd also like to thank you for your recent report on the business risk management programs, which builds on the excellent work you have done as part of your committee business.

Today we are looking at the department's main estimates 2020-21, which will invest more than $2.5 billion in Canada's agriculture and agri-food sector.

These funds will help farmers and food processors take advantage of market opportunities, manage business risks, invest in innovation, protect our environment and promote sustainable agriculture—agriculture that achieves economic, environmental and human sustainability.

I would first like to acknowledge the work of our agricultural producers and all industry stakeholders in collectively ensuring that Canadians are fed at all times, even during a pandemic. Since Day 1 of this pandemic, they have adapted to secure our food supply despite significant challenges. Our government is supporting them along the way. We have made major investments over the past eight months and we will continue to make strategic investments to maintain a strong supply chain and ensure the safety of our workers.

Here's a recent example. The emergency on-farm support fund, backed by a federal investment of $35 million, will help more than 4,500 agricultural producers across Canada cover the costs of protecting their workers. These include costs associated with personal protective equipment, improved accommodations and disinfection stations.

We also invested $50 million to help more than 3,000 agricultural employers meet the costs of quarantine measures needed to ensure the safety of their workers.

In response to farmers' concerns, we have expanded the Canada emergency business account. Producers have access to a $60,000 interest-free loan, and the account is now open to businesses that used to use personal bank accounts. We will now be able to help up to 85,000 producers with up to $1.5 billion in interest-free loans. In addition, one third of the program's loans are forgivable under certain conditions, which could mean a direct transfer of $1.7 billion to our farmers.

Amongst other programs, our surplus food rescue program is expected to redirect about six million kilos of food to Canadians in need while helping to stabilize markets for farmers, and we are investing $200 million to help food aid organizations continue their vital service to Canadians in need through the pandemic. Across Canada, the first installment of $100 million has supported more than 3,200 local food organizations, including six million meals for two million Canadians.

Looking ahead, we all agree on the need to improve our business risk management programs, starting with AgriStability. BRM is a top priority for me and for our government, and once again I would like to thank the committee for its recommendations. Together with the provincial-territorial ministers, we are working to improve the programs and provide a national consensus where provinces pay their share and where programs are fair for different sectors. Tomorrow, we will continue our discussions and options for improvements to BRM programs for the short and long term.

Thanks to the hard work of farmers, our agri-food exports are up more than 8% compared to the same time last year. That includes significant increases of almost 80% in exports of Canadian lentils, pork and canola seed.

I'm pleased to inform the committee that we are on course to a new record for exports this year and in good shape to reach our government's ambitious goal of $75 billion in agri-food exports by 2025.

On another note, we know how important our supply management system is to the vitality of our regions and family farms. That's why we continue to support supply-managed producers and processors and are delivering on our promise to fully and fairly compensate our dairy, poultry and egg producers and processors for the impacts of the three recent trade agreements.

A first payment was made to dairy producers under a year ago for the impacts of CETA and the CPTPP. As I said in the House of Commons on October 30, the second compensation payment will be made in the current fiscal year.

We will also announce compensation for poultry and egg producers.

In the wake of NAFTA ratification, we are continuing our discussions with supply-managed sectors to address the impact on their industry.

With respect to future agreements, the Prime Minister and I have been very clear that we will not provide new market access for supply-managed products in future trade agreements.

Despite the enormous pressures of the past eight months, Canada's agriculture and agri-food sector continues to show strength and resilience. We are already seeing some truly positive results. In addition to exports, we have noted strong demand and high prices in many industries this fall. We are seeing record production of exceptional quality grains. Farm financial receipts have increased by 8.4% for the first three quarters of 2020. We are seeing increases in agriculture and agri-food GDP and processed food sales.

I look forward to working with the committee to ensure that the agriculture and agri-food sector remains the key to our economic recovery.

Thank you.

I am ready to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you for your speech, Madam Minister.

I would like to acknowledge the presence of Ms. Barnes from the Canadian Food Inspection Agency and Chris Forbes, Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada.

We are also joined by Christine Walker, assistant deputy minister.

Welcome to our committee this afternoon.

With that, we will start with our question round and the first panel, for six minutes.

Mr. Lehoux, you have the floor.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to inform you that I will be sharing my time with my colleague Ms. Rood.

Good afternoon, Madam Minister. Thank you for being with us today, I appreciate it very much.

In your speech, you talked about your commitment to providing compensation to producers. You had a commitment of $1.75 billion over eight years. I reiterate that the first payment of $345 million was made in December 2019. We are coming up on December 2020. There are only days left before the end of 2020.

When do you plan to pay a second instalment of compensation, Madam Minister?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Lehoux.

You have summed up the situation very well. Indeed, we announced $1.75 billion to dairy producers over an eight-year period. The first payment was made less than 12 months ago and we have committed to making the second payment as soon as possible this year, that is, 2020-21. It will therefore be paid before March 31.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you for your answer, Madam Minister. However, based on your responses in the House of Commons over the past few weeks, we expected an announcement before the end of the 2020 calendar year.

I think the patience of producers has been tested. The current pandemic has caused enormous stress to the agricultural sector, but dairy farmers in particular expected a quicker response.

Madam Minister, you are before us today to discuss the budget. I understand that the next scheduled payment of this money won't occur in 2020, but in early 2021. That said, how much compensation are you going to pay for the fiscal year ending March 31?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

I agree with you that this has been a difficult year for our producers. They've been under a lot of stress because of the pandemic, which is why we've put in place several measures to help them indirectly. I'll remind you that these producers have access to an interest-free loan of $60,000, of which $20,000 doesn't have to be repaid. It's important to keep in mind that it is a kind of direct transfer to all producers. They had access to it and still have access to it now. It's a matter of going through this program.

As I said, they received the first payment less than 12 months ago. We are sorting out the last few details in order to make a second compensation payment as soon as possible.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you for the response, Madam Minister, but I wish people could have gotten more specific figures today.

I'll turn things over to my colleague Ms. Rood.

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you for being here today, Minister.

Minister, I put a question to the Prime Minister on November 4 about grocery giants gouging suppliers. The Prime Minister answered:

The federal Competition Bureau, as an independent law enforcement agency, is responsible for enforcing the Competition Act, and we expect that it will.

I am just wondering if you have followed up with the Competition Bureau as to whether or not they are investigating the grocery giants' practices, as the Prime Minister has indicated.

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Yes, the Competition Bureau is an independent bureau, but they are there to support us, and actually, we got a message from the person in charge saying that he would be working with us.

We're working with the Competition Bureau. It remains an independent agency, but it has skills and knowledge that it's prepared to make available to us.

Tomorrow, as you well know, we'll be meeting with the provincial ministers of Agriculture, and this is on the agenda. I thank my colleague from the Quebec government, Minister Lamontagne, for co-chairing a committee with me on this issue. We'll work together to see what the best approach is to support, assist and protect our producers and processors.

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

But, Minister, the federal Competition Bureau is federal, not provincial. I'm guessing what you're going to be speaking to your counterparts about tomorrow among the provinces is the grocery code of conduct issue. I've spoken with several of the provinces, and I know that there's an appetite for this, definitely within industry and also among the provinces.

Will you take the lead with your counterparts to help them develop this and release a code of conduct?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

I made sure that it was a topic on our agenda because it's an important issue. We have to understand and respect the jurisdiction of the federal government and the provinces. I'm really looking forward to defining a road map together, a way of collaborating that will be effective for the coming weeks and months. Obviously, the code of conduct is one option that will be discussed. We will take advice from our different officials and other organizations, such as the Competition Bureau, to see what the different paths are that we may follow to find a solution to this situation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Madam Minister.

Thank you, Ms. Rood.

Now, we'll move to Madame Bessette.

You have six minutes.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister Bibeau, thank you very much for being with us today. I'd like to congratulate you for your hard work throughout this pandemic. I'm in constant contact with the producers in my region, and I often hear how much you are listening to their needs and concerns, so thank you.

You spoke a little about it in your speech, but I'd like to come back to the issue of access to labour for our agricultural producers.

During a meeting I had this week with UPA Estrie, I was able to hear how satisfied the organization was with the work that had been done by our government. Indeed, we have speeded up processing times, since these are essential workers.

What steps has the government taken to facilitate access for producers to temporary foreign workers and labour?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Thank you.

At the start of the pandemic, when the border was closed, we were all extremely concerned. We know just how important foreign workers are to food security in Canada.

I worked with my colleague the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship and my colleague the Minister of Labour. Together, we really did everything we could to simplify the process. For example, we've made sure to use more electronic files and less paper. Our colleague Soraya Martinez Ferrada has also been a great help in this matter.

We still managed to accommodate 85% of the number of workers we welcomed the previous year. Of course, the pandemic has exacerbated the already existing labour shortage. Under the circumstances, I remain quite satisfied with the work. As you said, UPA Estrie was also relieved.

To ensure the health and protection of Canadians, we have, of course, imposed a mandatory 14-day isolation period for foreign workers. To help producers and employers who had to cover the costs associated with 14 days off work, we put in place a $50-million fund. Actually, it's even a little over $50 million now, as the program was extended when the Quarantine Act requirements were extended. So this is a very important measure.

Another measure that's been taken is $35 million to help agricultural producers put in place certain measures to protect workers, whether it's buying PPE, setting up handwashing stations or adapting housing for their foreign workers.

So we've set up various programs. We did the same for processors.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you very much.

Access to markets is another issue that often comes up in our discussions on the ground. It would seem that the pandemic has exacerbated the disparities between our small local producers and the larger agri-food companies.

What is the government doing currently to promote our food self-sufficiency and facilitate access to markets for our small farmers? What is your vision for food sovereignty and our processing capacity?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Thank you for the question.

Canada is a very large country, a great agricultural and agri-food producer. We have the capacity to produce food not only for Canadians, but for people in many other countries. We feed the world, to some degree.

As you well know, the federal government's main responsibilities revolve around international trade, research and innovation, and assistance to producers. In addition, the federal government assists its provincial colleagues through provincial transfers and the Canadian partnership for agriculture. There are many programs to assist local initiatives that are 60% funded by the federal government.

It's all about finding the balance. We want our producers to benefit from foreign markets. At the same time, the COVID-19 crisis has shown us that our local and regional supply chains can certainly be strengthened. You will have noticed that the Speech from the Throne makes mention of this. We want to work with the provinces to strengthen our regional supply chains.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you very much.

Support for our dairy farmers is also paramount in my riding. Can you tell us what the government is doing to help this sector?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

I'd say that the most significant measure in the COVID-19 context was the $200 million increase in the Canadian Dairy Commission's borrowing limit. This helped it buy more butter and cheese, for example, and manage the supply management system. That's precisely its purpose: it has the ability to adapt supply and demand to a certain degree. That's what the Canadian Dairy Commission requested from us, and we granted it.

In addition, as I said earlier, the Canada emergency business account is available to all producers, including dairy producers. This is an interest-free $60,000 loan, $20,000 of which is non-repayable.

Those are the most important measures recently taken in response to the COVID-19 crisis.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thanks very much.

That will be all, Mr. Chair, since I only have 20 seconds left.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Ms. Bessette and Madam Minister.

I now turn the floor over to Mr. Perron for six minutes.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, Minister. I'm very pleased to welcome you to the committee. Thank you for being with us today.

It will come as no great surprise that I'm going to start by discussing compensation.

I was very pleased to see that your party supports the clear motion that was adopted earlier in the House. There's no ambiguity there. In fact, the only thing that's ambiguous are the dates on which the payments will be made.

You just told my colleague from Beauce that compensation will be paid to dairy producers at the end of the fiscal year, on March 31. I understood what you said, but that poses a problem. Are you aware that, in 2019, after they were given the choice to receive the first instalment in 2019 or 2020, many businesses chose to take it in 2019 to avoid getting two instalments in 2020? For the moment, however, it appears they'll receive two instalments in 2021, if I understand you correctly. That's a problem for small businesses. On the other hand, there wouldn't be any major consequences for the federal government if it paid out those amounts before Christmas, particularly since they've already been calculated and budgeted for. There's no surprise there. I don't understand why they couldn't be paid out before Christmas

Is there a chance that might be announced on Monday, for example? Can we hope for that?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

One can always hope. However, we've made a firm commitment, Mr. Perron: we're going to pay out the second instalment to dairy producers this year.

I'm sure you understand that, if I could announce it, it would already be done, but we still have a few items to finalize. I'll give you more specific details at the appropriate time.

Our commitment to dairy producers is still very firm.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

To my mind, "this year" means 2020. I'm counting on you, as the producers are doing, to exercise some pressure.

Now let's talk about the other sectors under supply management.

In response to questions, you often say that an initial instalment has been paid. However, egg and poultry producers have received nothing, processors either. They need an announcement soon because what they want is modernization programs. Those programs need to be started up.

What can you say in response to them today?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

We have committed to providing a clear response to egg and poultry producers regarding compensation for the first two agreements, the one with Europe and the other with the trans-Pacific zone. Consequently, we'll inform them of the compensation amount and the model or form the compensation programs will take during the current year.