Agriculture Committee on May 9th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 18 of the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-food.

I will start with a few reminders. Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House Order of November 25, 2021. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. So you are aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking, rather than the entirety of the committee. Screenshots or taking photos of your screen is not permitted.

Colleagues, I would remind you to follow the health protocols.

Otherwise, this isn't our first rodeo, so we'll get right to it.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Monday, January 31, 2022, the committee is resuming its study of the environmental contribution of agriculture.

I would now like to welcome our witnesses for this two-hour panel.

With us today by video conference from the Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food, we have Dr. Gilles Saindon, who serves as the assistant deputy minister of the science and technology branch; Dr. Louis-Pierre Comeau, landscape and soil carbon research scientist; Dr. Ed Gregorich, research scientist, agrienvironment division; Dr. Reynald Lemke, research scientist with environmental health; Dr. Judith Nyiraneza, research scientist, crop nutrient management; and Dr. Mervin St. Luce, research scientist, Swift Current research and development centre.

Welcome. We're happy to have you here before our committee.

We're going to allow for up to 15 minutes for opening remarks from the entire panel of witnesses we have today, and then we're going to proceed to questions.

Perhaps, Mr. Saindon, you would like to start. We have 15 minutes collectively for you and the other witnesses today. I turn it over to you, my friend.

[Dr. Gilles Saindon, Assistant Deputy Minister, Science and Technology Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My name is Gilles Saindon and I am the assistant deputy minister in the Science and Technology Branch at Agriculture and Agri-food Canada. It's a pleasure to see you all as you study the environmental contribution of agriculture.

I am participating in this session today from the unceded traditional lands of the Algonquin Nation here in Ottawa.

Thank you for the opportunity to talk about the Government's initiatives related to the science of soil health for Canada's agriculture sector.

Over the years Canada's agriculture sector has consistently taken steps to reduce its environmental impact, with support from Agriculture and Agri-food Canada (AAFC) science activities aimed at developing innovative, environmentally friendly practices. These efforts have allowed the sector as a whole to increase productivity without significant increases in emissions.

AAFC research and programs have and continue to guide agricultural production towards sustainable and resilient agroecosystems and agricultural landscapes. In the context of a changing climate, we aim to manage agriculture's use of natural resources in a way that enhances the resiliency of the sector, fosters new economic opportunities and supports long-term competitiveness without exceeding the system's natural capacity.

Soil conservation and health have always been core priorities for producers and for AAFC, building on a long history of our scientists conducting world-class research through a network of 20 research centres distributed across Canada.

These scientists identify innovative practices that help to build resilience in soil; reduce erosion; increase soil organic matter and cell carbon, which is in turn partially offsetting the agricultural sector's greenhouse gas emissions; and, of course, improve crop productivity in the process.

These and other efforts have contributed to the widespread adoption in the Prairies of reduced and zero-tillage practices, reduced use of summer fallow, and improved crop rotation.

Due to these actions by producers, agricultural soils in Canada have gone from a net carbon source to removing 9.6 megatonnes of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere in 2020. As a result, farmers are not only conserving soil health and productivity but are also making a significant contribution to combatting climate change.

Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada is working with the provinces and territories, farmers, and other Canadian agriculture and food stakeholders in continuing to develop and implement innovative solutions that contribute to improving the quality, yield, safety and sustainability of the food produced by Canadian farmers.

AAFC's science experts are contributing to the development of foundational science knowledge as well as informing the design of policy and programs to support producers' efforts across Canada to adopt novel practices and technologies.

Beneficial management practices, BMPs, are practices that reduce or eliminate an environmental risk. BMPs developed, tested and recommended in Canada cover a range of agri-environmental practices including nutrient management, shelterbelts, reduced tillage intensity, energy efficiencies and renewable energy, as well as other practices related to greenhouse gas emissions and increasing carbon sequestration.

The scientific body of knowledge has shown that BMPs such as reduced tillage, planting trees, silvopastures, rotational grazing, improved crop rotations and converting marginal cropland to permanent grassland can promote carbon sequestration, which improves soil health while offsetting emissions, particularly in regions where soil has previously been degraded.

In 2018-2019, AAFC began the development of Agroecosystem Living Laboratories, where farmers and scientists work with other stakeholders to codevelop, test and implement best management practices and technologies on working farms.

This work is further advancing under the natural climate solution fund, which seeks to leverage nature to fight climate change. Under this fund, an investment of $185 million for 10 years supports the expansion of the Living Labs network across Canada.

The primary objectives of these living labs are to store carbon on agricultural land to keep it out of the atmosphere, reduce greenhouse gases, improve land management practices and support other environmental benefits such as biodiversity, water quality and soil health.

Although we have had successes, many unknowns remain. Our scientific work continues to decode the complexity and interactions across the landscape, identifying opportunities from natural climate solutions or from new digital technologies, such as artificial intelligence and satellite imagery, which are also being integrated into crop and soil monitoring and forecasting.

Today I am joined by five Agriculture and Agri-food Canada scientists, to help answer your questions: Dr. Louis‑Pierre Comeau in New Brunswick; Dr. Ed Gregorich in Ontario; Dr. Reynald Lemke in Saskatchewan; Dr. Judith Nyiraneza in Prince Edward Island; and Dr. Mervin St. Luce in Saskatchewan.

These experts are all well recognized, both nationally and internationally, as experts in their fields and in the development of sustainable cropping systems.

I would like to reiterate that the agricultural sector has an important role to play as one of Canada's oldest and most important environmental stewards. Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada is working to support farmers in this goal to ensure that the sector's environmental impact continues to shrink while its economic output and the health of our soils continue to grow.

Thank you for your time.

I'm happy to take any questions.

Mr. Chair, my colleagues would be pleased to introduce themselves to give you additional information on their area of expertise, which will help direct the questions to the witnesses who can best answer them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you very much, Mr. Saindon.

We will start with the question period.

We're going to start with the Conservative Party. I believe it's Mr. Barlow.

[John Barlow, Foothills, CPC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate the officials making time for us today.

Mr. Saindon, I appreciate one of your comments. You said that as a result of carbon sequestration and soil health, Canadian farmers have sequestered 9.6 megatonnes of GHG emissions from the atmosphere and that they are a significant contribution in the fight against climate change. Certainly I couldn't agree with you more, but there have been some reports recently that I would say are unfortunately putting some misinformation out there about the role that agriculture plays.

Just as maybe an easy question, is there some potential there for AAFC, in some of the work you're doing, to push back on some of these reports saying that agriculture is a problem rather than offering some of the solution?

[Dr. Gilles Saindon]

I would like to say that yes, producers are surely out there and are quite active stewards in preserving carbon and adding to carbon sequestration.

Perhaps I will move to my colleague Dr. Ed Gregorich here on the panel, who is an expert in this area. He can probably elaborate a bit more on this question.

[Dr. Ed Gregorich, Research Scientist, Agrienvironment Division, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Yes, I think agriculture definitely has a role to play in reducing its environmental footprint but also in greenhouse gas emissions. I know that there have been reports about various technologies, but this is something that we can actively do, or farmers can do, because they manage the land and are able to use different management practices to reduce that environmental footprint, whether it be greenhouse gas emissions, water quality or whatever.

They definitely have a role to play, and we have the information that will allow us to show that in terms of data and modelling efforts.

[John Barlow]

Thanks. I appreciate the answer.

One of the areas, I would say, where the Government of Canada, departments and bureaucracy could play a role is this. There was a report recently that basically said that we have to reduce animal husbandry and animal agriculture if we want to fight climate change. I would argue that grazing is protecting some very delicate ecosystems, including native grasslands that make up a large part of my riding.

There is a product, an organic compound, out there, 3-NOP, which is a feed additive, especially for dairy cows, that could reduce methane emissions anywhere between 30% and 80%, as studies have shown.

This food additive has been approved in the EU and for use in the United States, but it continues to languish waiting for approval here in Canada, because instead of treating it as a feed additive or feed supplement, we're treating it as a medicinal compound, so it's going through veterinary health medicine rather than just as a feed compound. It could play a significant role in reducing emissions and protecting the environment. Why is Canada treating this product, which is an organic compound, so differently from other countries, especially the EU, which is very risk-averse in approving new technology?

[Dr. Gilles Saindon]

Mr. Chair, in this particular, I think we're surely aware of 3-NOP as a feed additive that could be put in the ration of a ruminant. We have done some research in the past, as a matter of fact, out of our Lethbridge centres in Alberta, where we demonstrate these massive reductions in greenhouse gas emissions from beef cattle in that particular case, but you're right that it works also for dairy cattle.

On the regulatory side, I think I would have to defer to my colleagues from the Department of Health. They are the ones looking after the regulatory component of this aspect. I would say at this point in time that I'm not really in a position to be able to answer in terms of why there was a decision to go that way.

[John Barlow]

Thanks, Dr. Saindon.

I guess my push here.... I realize it's in health. I know about the studies that were done at the feedlot in Lethbridge and in Nanton and also in my neck of the woods.

Why are Ag Canada and your studies not pushing back on the fact that there should be some harmonization here when some of these new innovations and technologies come out, which are proven and being used by some countries that we trade with? I would encourage you to push hard on Health Canada to get this product approved as quickly as possible, knowing that you have done the studies in your department that show how effective it is.

I want to quickly change subjects here. You mentioned emissions reductions and carbon sequestration. I'd like to know what role, if any, your department had in the announcement at COP26 for the 30% reduction in fertilizer emissions. You talked about the innovation and technology that's happened, like 4R nutrient stewardship, for example. You talked about zero till. We are probably up to 70% more efficient in fertilizer use than any other country in the world.

What role did your department play in that announcement at COP26, if any?

[Dr. Gilles Saindon]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Again, that's a question that my colleague from the strategic policy branch may be better positioned to answer.

The information that we provided to them is more related to the way we manage and use fertilizers here in this country. Perhaps I will ask my colleague, Dr. Reynald Lemke, to talk a bit more about this in the context of his work on fertilizers.

[Dr. Reynald Lemke, Research Scientist, Environmental Health, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I'll do my best to respond.

From my perspective—

[John Barlow]

I'm sorry. I don't want to cut you off, but I'm out of time.

Did Ag Canada have any input on that announcement from COP26, yes or no?

[Dr. Reynald Lemke]

There would have been information provided in terms of what the emission levels were and the technical aspects. Really, that's all I can respond with.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Mr. Lemke.

Mr. Saindon, you have my apologies. Because I was listening in French, I thought you had been finishing up, but you did offer that some of your colleagues—some of the researchers here—could perhaps give the committee an index of what they do. There were about six minutes left and I didn't see any hands, so I quickly moved to questions.

I invite anyone who may want to quickly give a sense to the committee. I apologize that I moved pretty quickly.

[Dr. Gilles Saindon]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I welcome this offer. We'll go as per the lineup we had prepared. I'm not quite sure who was going to go first.

[Dr. Louis-Pierre Comeau, Research Scientist, Landscape and Soil Carbon, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Maybe I can go first.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and good morning, everyone.

My name is Louis-Pierre Comeau. I speak to you from Fredericton, New Brunswick. I would like to begin by recognizing that the land where I am is the traditional unceded territory of the Maliseet and Mi'kmaq people.

I grew up on the south shore of Montreal and spent part of my childhood on my family's sugar bush. I received a a biology degree from the National Autonomous University of Mexico, a master's degree in soil science from University of Saskatchewan and a Ph.D. from University of Aberdeen. I also completed postdoctoral studies at the Chinese University of Hong Kong.

As a research scientist with the federal government, my research focuses on landscape and soil carbon. Specifically, I'm investigating a way to replenish soil organic matter from wetland, agricultural and forest land.

My long-term scientific goal is to contribute to knowledge about why some carbon molecules can remain stable in the soil for thousands of years. I currently lead a pan-Canadian survey project that investigates the relationship between land use practices and carbon storage.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Would someone like to go next?

[Dr. Reynald Lemke]

Yes, Mr. Chairman. Thank you and good morning to everyone.

My name is Reynald Lemke. I'm a research scientists working out of the Canada Research and Development Centre in Saskatoon. I will mention that it is on Treaty 6 land and the homeland of the Métis.

I am a soil scientist by training. My research program considers the factors that control soil-emitted greenhouse gases from agricultural soils to accurately quantify those emissions and also to identify opportunities to constrain or reduce emissions. My work has primarily focused on soil-emitted nitrous oxide, leading to research into the influence of nitrogen fertilizer management, crop type, crop rotations and tillage intensity on nitrous oxide emissions.

Nitrogen and carbon are intimately linked in the soils. These same factors also influence soil-emitting carbon dioxide; thus, my work also considers the impact of these practices on soil organic carbon status.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Mr. Lemke.

Who would like to go next?

[Dr. Ed Gregorich]

My name is Ed Gregorich, and I am a research scientist at the AAFC in Ottawa. I am a soil biochemist and I study soil health and carbon cycling and sequestration in soils. My research is focused on understanding the effects of agricultural practices on soil health and soil organic matter.

I'd like to thank you for inviting us here today and I look forward to answering your questions.

[Dr. Judith Nyiraneza, Research Scientist, Crop Nutrient Management, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Good morning.

Thank you for the opportunity, Mr. Chairman.

My name is Judith Nyiraneza, and I am based in Charlottetown in P.E.I. I am a soil scientist by training. I conduct research on nutrient management in potato-based systems. I am now leading the P.E.I. living lab project, with an overall objective of enhancing soil health and water quality.

In this project I am working with growers to test different management practices, including cover crops ahead of potatoes with and without manure, and testing different tillage regimes. We are evaluating their effects on soil organic matter, potato yield and nitrogen cycling in the potato plant and soil systems, and on soil aggregation.

I would be happy to answer your questions.

[Dr. Mervin St. Luce, Research Scientist, Swift Current Research and Development Centre, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Good morning, Mr. Chair. Thank you for this opportunity.

My name is Mervin St. Luce, and I am a research scientist in soil fertility and cropping systems at Swift Current in Saskatchewan. The major aims of my research program are to gain a better understanding of nitrogen cycling and dynamics in cropping systems and to develop best management practices to enhance soil health and nutrient use efficiency.

I have conducted and continue to conduct research on the impact of pulses on nitrogen dynamics and use efficiency in various cropping systems, the influence of 4R nutrient management practices on crop productivity and nitrogen use efficiency, and the influence of management practices on soil organic carbon dynamics.

Currently I am co-leading a project aimed at improving yield and nitrogen use efficiency in canola production across Canada, and also leading a new project on developing a soil spectral library for rapid and cost-effective assessment and monitoring of soil organic carbon across western Canada.

Thank you for giving me this opportunity. I look forward to answering your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you very much to all of you.

My apologies to Mr. Barlow that he didn't have your background before, but I know he'll be able to re-engage moving forward.

Mr. Louis, you're now up for six minutes. We will move over to you, my friend.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you for that, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all of our witnesses for being here. We don't have enough time to get to all the questions I'm sure we have.

Maybe I would start right from the top.

Dr. Saindon, just in general, in your opening remarks you briefly mentioned programs that can help farmers adopt more sustainable practices and more sustainable technologies. In all the conversations we've had indicate that they want to do their part, and there are programs out there. I know there is the climate action fund and the agriculture clean tech program, and you also mentioned codeveloping and testing and implementing best practices from the natural climate fund.

Can you explain a little bit about those programs and how the industries themselves can work together and get involved so they can have input as well?

Thank you.

[Dr. Gilles Saindon]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

If I may, I'll just say a few comments at the beginning and probably go to my colleague in Prince Edward Island, Judith, to talk a bit more about the living labs, which is a direct engagement with producers.

As you mentioned, we have a number of programs. You've mentioned clean tech, which is a program that is in place to help with the implementation of clean technology on the farm.

As part of nature-based solution programming, we have two components. One is the development of living labs, which I mentioned in my comments with $185 million over 10 years to implement these living labs across the country. There is also an on-farm climate action fund, which is $200 million over a three-year period. It was launched a little after, but they are companion programs. One deals with the development of science for new BMPs, one is in collaboration with stakeholders, and the other one is to provide funding for the producer to implement some of the existing BMPs on their own farm.

There was also an announcement in the budget about supplementing these funds for on-farm action, but that will just come in in the months to come.

Maybe I'll pass it to Judith, who is speaking from Charlottetown, because she spends quite a bit of her time working with producers along the lines you just mentioned.

I will pass it briefly over to Judith, Mr. Chair.