Agriculture Committee on Dec. 21st, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Is it okay now, Mr. Epp?

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

I have put the mike a little higher. Does that make it a bit easier on your ears? I apologize for that.

What appears to have changed is American confidence in our management plan and our system, so my first question would be for the CFIA, for Ms. Mithani.

Would you table with the committee the agreement you have with the Americans, with APHIS, as to what conditions will be required in order to resume trade?

[Dr. Siddika Mithani]

We have provided information to our stakeholders, as well as the province, around our discussions with the United States and APHIS. Those conversations continue. We have provided that information to all our stakeholders.

Through the working group we have, there is a discussion prior to our meeting with APHIS and then a readout following the meeting with APHIS. That information is available. We can make it available to you.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Do you have an agreement with APHIS on what the conditions will be?

[Dr. Siddika Mithani]

We do not have an agreement. These are technical discussions as a result of the detection in October of the potato wart. These discussions are scientific. There's information sharing. There is, following discussions, normally a letter that says what we've discussed and what we are looking at. That information has been shared as a readout with the industry and the province.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

What I'm hearing is that this is the crux of the matter. The crux is that there isn't agreement, that there is a dispute. I would assume the officials would have gamed out the process by which to address this issue. By going to a voluntary ban, we've removed from ourselves any potential dispute resolution mechanisms, if I understand correctly, if we get to that point.

If I may ask, what is the present resolution process in place right now if we can't reach agreement with APHIS?

[Dr. Siddika Mithani]

I think it's important to understand that this was not a ban. This was based on the regulation in our plant protection regulations that if an importing country has concerns with our product—here, based on the concerns that the U.S. had—we are not authorized to issue export certificates. That was the rationale for the suspension of the issuance of export certificates.

We continue to speak with the USDA and APHIS—

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you. I've asked for the things to be tabled.

Could I ask if the CFIA has received any direction, from either the minister or the PMO, to go the compensation route rather than fight with the Americans at the border?

[Dr. Siddika Mithani]

The discussions that we are having with the USDA are scientific and technical discussions.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Yes. Did you receive any direction from the Prime Minister's Office or from the minister as to the route that you are to go to address this issue with the Americans?

[Dr. Siddika Mithani]

We have had no direction from anybody. These are technical discussions that we have with the USDA to try to resolve the scientific issue of a difference in the interpretation of the level of risk tolerance. From a CFIA perspective, with respect to table stock potatoes, we feel that the mitigation measures that have been put in place do give us a negligible risk. From a USDA/APHIS perspective, this is not the same, so there is the difference in interpretation of scientific results or scientific argument.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Right, so what's the mechanism for resolving that?

[Dr. Siddika Mithani]

The technical discussions continue. We are looking at what information APHIS requires in order for us to satisfy their requirements for table stock potatoes. This is a preoccupation for the CFIA. This is something that we are working continuously and very hard on.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

I'd like to shift to the Prince Edward Island government.

Were you consulted in the development of the strategy to address this issue or were you informed after the fact?

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

You have 10 seconds, unfortunately. That's all we have. Over to you, sir.

[Brian Matheson]

We have been in discussions since the wart was found in the fall. I'm not sure that we were involved in discussions of strategy, but we have been involved in some of the outcomes that could have taken place.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Mr. Matheson. Thank you, Mr. Epp.

It's over to you, Mr. Turnbull, for five minutes.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Through you, I'll direct my questions to Ms. Mithani.

Would you characterize this as a trade disagreement or a pest issue?

[Dr. Siddika Mithani]

CFIA is a regulator. We have a mandate to protect the health of plants and of animals as well. This means that from my perspective, from the CFIA perspective, this is a pest issue.

Our mandate is to ensure that we prevent the spread of potato wart across the country and internationally. We have found detections. Our long-term management plan is in place so that we are able to detect very quickly and put mitigation measures in place. This continues to happen.

P.E.I. has had a long history of producing the highest-quality potatoes for Canadians and international consumers. The Government of Canada shares the pride of our P.E.I. producers. The fact is that the long-term management plan has really allowed P.E.I. to move hundreds of potatoes across the country and internationally, so it is working.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you. I know that other members have suggested in their line of questioning that perhaps this risk management plan is not working. Isn't it true that you can have an instance of potato wart and still have an effective risk management plan? There are soil and climatic conditions that are ever-changing, and it is difficult, I'm sure, to account for every possibility. This is akin to trying to predict the weather, is it not?

[Dr. Siddika Mithani]

I would agree with your analogy around climate and how this happens. It's a good one. I would also say that these are conditions and these are plans.... The long-term management plan is a plan that's evergreen. It provides the CFIA the opportunity to modify change as required.

It is just the same with the ministerial order. A ministerial order can be modified, revoked and changed as required. This has been the best way forward in terms of trying to protect the potato program across the country and to ensure that P.E.I. potatoes can still go across the country and to other places too. We continue to work with the U.S. to try to come to a resolution on the issue we are having right now.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Has this happened before, Ms. Mithani? Have there been instances of potato wart that have affected trade relationships with the U.S.?

[Dr. Siddika Mithani]

In the year 2000, when we had the first detections of the potato wart in both table stock potatoes and seed potatoes, we did not have access to the U.S. market for six months. This is not something that is unusual. It requires time. It requires information. It requires scientific investigation and data to support our position, which is exactly what we are doing right now.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Did it happen in 2014 as well?

[Dr. Siddika Mithani]

I do not have the details at hand on 2014, but I imagine it was the same.

Maybe David Bailey can answer that question.