Evidence of meeting #22 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ukrainian.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Labat, I'd like to start with you.
Our previous panel of witnesses included a Ukrainian member of Parliament and organizations that were in Ukraine. They really gave us an up-close-and-personal view of what's going on in that country. They all said that relieving the port of Odessa was incredibly important, and it was causing a very serious backlog. Their storage capacity is maxed out and that will impact whether they are able to seed and harvest the crop this year.
The EU has I think Romania and Bulgaria, which have coastlines on the Black Sea. I know that Turkey has been considered as possibly a future member of the EU, but it's also of course a member of NATO.
From the EU's perspective on efforts to secure safe passage from Odessa, which would be the most efficient way of relieving the storage crisis in Ukraine, but also of freeing up a lot of that food, can you maybe tell us a little bit about the EU's efforts in that regard, since you are so much closer in the neighbourhood and probably have a perspective that we as Canadian parliamentarians don't.
12:50 p.m.
Trade Counsellor, Trade and Economic Section, Delegation of the European Union to Canada
Actually, the most recent calls have come from the president of Slovakia who has called for safe passages out of the port of Odessa, which could be safeguarded or guaranteed by Turkey or by the UN, as I understand it. So far, our efforts have focused on land passages and, precisely, since the port was blocked, we are trying to facilitate access through those solidarity lanes that I mentioned earlier to help Ukraine export its agricultural goods.
It is very complicated, because of the border crossings and the very long waiting times at the moment. We want to reduce those. We've called on EU market players to help with this crisis with additional vehicles, by setting up matchmaking logistic platforms and by creating one-stop shops in the member states for these solidarity lanes.
We've also asked market players to make additional rail slots available for exports and to try to remove bottlenecks. We've also worked with national customs authorities to accelerate procedures at border crossing points, and we're also trying to make sure that we create additional storage capacity in the EU.
At the moment, it's really an effort at the land borders, as the port of Odessa, as you were saying, is blocked. There are ongoing discussions on how to help. As you know, the EU is not a military power, so at the moment, there are discussions on how to facilitate and how to safeguard, but we're not there yet.
12:50 p.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Thank you for that perspective.
For the Foodgrains Bank, Mr. Hagerman, you talked about two things that Canada can do. We as a committee can take it as a clear recommendation that the Government of Canada increase food assistance through the Food Assistance Convention, that we peg our assistance to the consumer price index and that we really step up to the plate.
On your second part, on helping developing countries become more independent, I guess to realize resiliency, can you talk a bit about Canadian agricultural know-how? Is it in equipment or is it in our expertise in planting? Can you go into a bit more detail and help this committee make a recommendation in that regard?
12:50 p.m.
Director of Public Policy, Canadian Foodgrains Bank
First, I have one point of clarification. I was talking about tying the food assistance to the food price index, not the consumer price index. It's the food price index from the FAO.
12:50 p.m.
Director of Public Policy, Canadian Foodgrains Bank
To your actual question on Canadian expertise, there are parts of Canadian agricultural expertise that are valuable, but it's not so much equipment, because we tend to make big equipment for big fields. Most of the farmers, in fact, in developing countries have very small fields.
It's not so much things like equipment, but it's often questions of understanding soil biology, in which Canada is actually a leader and doing lots of research. If you think about the Global Institute for Food Security and the University of Saskatchewan, they've done tremendous work on soil biology, which is very transferable to developing countries.
Some of our work on value chains and processing, those things are very helpful regardless of the scale, more so than equipment per se. Even understanding how conservation agriculture helps soil biology and how it helps water use, those kinds of things, can be quite helpful, and they transcend the question of scale.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Kody Blois
We'll have to leave it there, Mr. MacGregor. Thank you, and thank you, Mr. Hagerman.
We're going to go to the second round colleagues. I'm going to do my best to get us through.
Mr. Hoback, you have three minutes.
June 6th, 2022 / 12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
Thank you, Chair. What a great study, and it's relatively timely, for sure.
Dr. Torero Cullen, one of the first things I was going to ask you, which you mentioned earlier, was about Indonesian palm oil being put under a trade restriction. Do you see that as being more of an ongoing problem as you get into tighter supplies? How is that going to impact cooking oil around the world?
12:55 p.m.
Chief Economist, Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations
No, what I was referring to was that they had an export restriction that they removed. That's why the price of oilseeds went down. As you know, Indonesia is one of the key exporters of palm oil. You had sunflower exports restricted because of the war, which were around 67%. Any country, like Indonesia, that puts an export restriction will immediately increase the price.
The point is that this needs to be avoided to avoid prices going up, which really affects Africa because it affects not only cooking oil but all uses of oilseeds.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
What products or commodities do you see having, possibly, the same types of responses throughout the next year? Where are we really short on in commodities?
12:55 p.m.
Chief Economist, Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations
In terms of wheat, one of the countries that responded positively and had an expansion index was India. It has now put an export restriction on wheat exports, although they already export around 4.5 million more metric tonnes than they used to in the past, which helped reduce the gap in wheat.
Our major concern is rice. If countries are not able to get the fertilizers they need, there could be an issue with rice. That was one major trigger in 2011, and in 2007-08. If you recall, rice has a very thin margin. Therefore, automatically, any export restriction will significantly exacerbate increasing prices. We need to avoid that happening with rice. Today, we have enough supplies. Let's hope they can get the fertilizers they need so that, next year, they also have enough supplies.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
When it comes to protein for cattle feed and products like that, how do you see trade being handled, in light of what's going on?
12:55 p.m.
Chief Economist, Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations
Everything that happens with cereals affects feedstock. We have seen an increase in the cost of feedstock. Therefore, that's an increase in the cost of meat.
It's important to understand that the grain still in Ukraine, which they said is between 20 million and 24 million metric tonnes. The number has increased because there's less consumption locally. A significant share of that is not for human consumption. It is for feedstock. One option could be to find ways to store it and then later deploy it, so we avoid a bigger disruption in the market.
What is the concern? Assume that you move out all the grain for human consumption right now. When the gap for wheat is only three million metric tonnes and the gap for maize is eight million metric tonnes, you could also create the opposite problem for farmers. If your opinion is correct—that they will increase the yield substantially—it will affect the prices in a situation where the affordability of outputs is declining substantially because of the increase of fertilizers and other inputs.
We have to be very careful to understand what is there, how that should be moved out and how it should be handled to avoid a bigger distortion.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Kody Blois
Thank you, Mr. Torero Cullen.
Thank you, Mr. Hoback. That's three minutes.
Mr. Turnbull, it's over to you.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thanks to all our panellists for being here today. I really appreciate their testimony and expertise.
I think that most of you, in your opening remarks, focused on or talked about supporting a more sustainable and resilient food system in the future, decreasing reliance on imports and supporting smallholder farmers.
Mr. Hagerman, I know you talked about how conservation agriculture can increase yields. You also said, in your opening remarks, that the problems we're experiencing today are not new.
It goes without saying that we need to respond immediately to the pressures the global food supply is under, given Russia's invasion of Ukraine. As we react to this crisis, though, do you share a concern that we may run the risk of further destabilizing our food system in any way?
I'll go to Mr. Hagerman first.
12:55 p.m.
Director of Public Policy, Canadian Foodgrains Bank
Can I ask for clarification on that—further destabilizing our food system how?
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
It seems to me that, by reacting quickly to the current food system, we're likely going to have to do things that may run counter to the long-term objective of creating a more sustainable food system. Certainly, the smallholder farmers are not going to increase their supply immediately, in order to supply what the world needs right now.
12:55 p.m.
Director of Public Policy, Canadian Foodgrains Bank
Okay. Thanks.
The global food system is a big ship. It takes a long time to turn it and make significant change. I referred to the 2008 food crisis. At the time, there was a recognition that there had been decades of underinvestment in agriculture. The G7, including Canada and others, put money into the system for three years. It didn't make significant changes.
I think we need to respond quickly, but whatever we do quickly is unlikely to shift things dramatically in the long-term food system until we start investing in agriculture in all of the countries currently so dependent on imports. In the short term, there is a big need, but it's not at risk of undermining the long term. We need to do that as well.
1 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Thank you for that. I appreciate that.
Mr. Torero Cullen, it's over to you.
I'm wondering, based on any multilateral discussions that have happened, whether you can see any mid-term solutions that will alleviate the pressures we're experiencing right now in this global food security crisis. However, will those also increase our chances of building a more resilient and sustainable food system globally?
1 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Kody Blois
Unfortunately, we're at time, Dr. Torero Cullen, but here's what I'll offer. We'll make sure that the clerk provides that question in writing, and we would ask for a response, if you're able. Certainly we would welcome your opinion on that.
Mr. Perron, you have the floor for a minute and a half.
1 p.m.
Bloc
Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Dr. Torero Cullen, I'm going to give you the opportunity to complete your answer to my question.
What can be done, concretely and quickly, to help in this situation? What is your main recommendation to the Government of Canada?