Agriculture Committee on Sept. 28th, 2022

[Scott Ross]

In terms of the labour shortage, I can give you some examples of the implications. Certainly one thing we have experienced through the pandemic is continual pressure on labour-intensive forms of agricultural production like fresh fruit and vegetable production, in particular where producers are left making very difficult decisions around the future of their operations due to a scarcity of labour. One of the challenges that I think has arisen—

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Pardon me; we're having trouble with translation, I believe. I'm going to keep talking in English until Mr. Perron can hear me in French. I've stopped the clock.

We're now corrected.

Mr. Ross, it's back to you.

[Scott Ross]

I'll just conclude and note that what we do hear about is continued pressure on some of these very high-value forms of production to move to less labour-intensive forms of production that are more mechanized to avoid labour pressures.

Our strategic approach with CAHRC is very multi-faceted and touches on everything from perceptions and awareness of the industry to workplace culture and HR practices to the need for improvements to our immigration regime and temporary foreign worker programs.

[Ron Lemaire]

Thank you for the question.

My answer is almost the same as Mr. Ross's.

I feel that we need to look at it.

I don't know if you'd like to ask another question.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

If I may, Mr. Lemaire, I'm going to add something to my question.

Did the changes that were made to the program in the last year spark any reaction on the ground? Did that improve the situation?

[Ron Lemaire]

I'm going to answer in English, as I don't have a lot time.

Yes, we did see a change. We did see movement in our temporary foreign worker program and in access to labour, but as Mr. Ross mentioned, as we move to more technology and more of the skilled labour that's required to drive change, we do require increased immigration. We do require targeted strategies that bring in the right skill set for the right areas of the supply chain.

Our biggest challenge now is actually post farm gate. After the grower grows it and it goes into the supply chain, the warehouses and repacking facilities do not have the labour to move the products through to the consumer. The push with the emergency post farm gate shift to 30% foreign workers has helped.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

We'll have to leave it there.

Thank you, Mr. Lemaire and Mr. Lehoux.

We have six minutes. We're going to turn back to the Liberal bench.

I'm going to start with Ms. Taylor Roy. If you do want to split your time, I'll leave that to you guys to decide.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, thank you to the witnesses for being here on this very interesting topic. We could go on and on, because there are so many aspects of food insecurity.

You talked about increasing supply and said that it's the supply that we need to focus on. I'm wondering what your thoughts are on decreasing food waste, because obviously we can also address food insecurity by dealing with the 40% of food that's wasted. Especially on the producer side, the agriculture side, how you are addressing that aspect so that less food is wasted and more makes its way to the ultimate consumer?

Perhaps Mr. Ross, you could start with that.

[Scott Ross]

Yes, sure.

I would simply say that at a high level I think one of the key focuses from our perspective is on improving data management and data systems to ensure there is that sort of adequate insight into supply chain dynamics to prevent food waste wherever possible.

I think we experience and operate, depending on the sector, in a very just-in-time delivery model in Canada. With the increasing disruptions we're seeing in climate change and the labour-related disruptions up and down the value chain, as we talked about, it becomes increasingly problematic to manage. I think it's really predicated on collaboration in the supply chain, on sharing of information and strengthening the relationship between buyers and sellers to ensure that there are both risk-sharing relationships and trust-based relationships to drive forward together and ensure that. A lot of the supply chain waste we experience doesn't necessarily fall within one entity; it crosses the relationships between multiple players, and that relationship is critical.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Can I just ask you a quick follow-up on that? Do you feel that there's a lot of effort or a lot of focus being put on that aspect currently?

[Scott Ross]

I will say that I sit on the steering committee on the grocery code of conduct process, and I think there's a lot of discussion there. We are under some confidentiality obligations, so I can't get into too much detail there, but I will say that building improved supply chain dynamics, building trust and building transparency in the system is an essential tenet in that entire discussion and process that we're involved in.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

I have a quick question for Mr. Lemaire.

You mentioned the national school food program, I believe. I'm a big proponent of that, of healthy food and dealing with food insecurity in Canada.

I have a question. We talk about the supply and demand balance. In Canada, demand and appetite have grown for certain types of foods because of the lower food prices, which have been kept down over the decades. I'm wondering what role you think education has in actually switching food consumption behaviours and how that can help with food insecurity.

[Ron Lemaire]

It certainly does. We saw some of this shift during the pandemic when people were looking for solutions on how to prepare food and how to store it. People were going back to home gardens and community gardens. That is foundational for shifting and changing behaviour and the knowledge of food.

That knowledge of food is key. How do we drive that through the school system? How do we move us back into an environment where Canadians understand how to buy, how to store, how to prepare and how to get the most out of their food?

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you very much.

I'll share the rest of my time.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you for that. I appreciate all the witnesses.

I'm going to talk to Mr. Ross from the Canadian Federation of Agriculture.

You talked about incentivizing climate-resilient policies, how the farmers want to do this and how we can support that productivity growth. You mentioned recognizing farmers for wetland protection. Can you give some examples of what is already happening and how we can take the next steps to do that?

[Scott Ross]

I'll speak to one particular example, the Canadian Wetlands Roundtable, where there's a lot of work under way currently on developing valuation metrics for some of these ecosystem services. Across the board, I think that is one of the fundamental challenges in pursuing good ecological services programming. It's making sure there's a concerted effort, with the right people in the room working on creating valuation models or means of putting a price on the public good that producers are providing.

When we look at things like emissions reductions, we see that many of the practices farmers are being asked to employ predominantly have public good and public benefit without necessarily a corresponding private benefit. Addressing that divide is fundamental to this entire discussion and why there is this need to continue exploring programming in this space.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I appreciate that.

Just to stay on there, you mentioned four lessons that we've learned. One of them was “a holistic approach to labour”. Can you expand on what you meant by that, and how we can learn from taking a holistic approach to labour?

[Scott Ross]

Yes, certainly. Right now I'm co-chairing the national agriculture, food and beverage manufacturing workforce strategy with the Canadian Agricultural Human Resource Council and Food and Beverage Canada. We are engaging industry stakeholders from across Canada across a series of different pillars, speaking to everything from the need for immigration reform and improvements to our temporary foreign worker programming to perceptions in career awareness to HR best practices, workplace culture and beyond.

I think what is critical here is engaging stakeholders from across the country, because there is no one entity that can tackle this issue, nor any person who can put their hand up and say, “We've done enough here”, because clearly the problem is getting worse, not just in agriculture but up and down the value chain. We've never heard so much from our producer members as we have over the past year about challenges in the food processing world relating to labour. I think we do need to take a value chain approach, but certainly one that is pan-Canadian and engaging the entire industry, because we need buy-in and support from all the stakeholders across the country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Mr. Ross. Thank you, Mr. Louis.

I want to recognize that MP Lapointe is in the room. We welcome to the agriculture committee the member for Sudbury, I believe. Although it's not a massive agriculture area, I know the Minister of Agriculture was up in that area in northern Ontario this summer. I wanted to make sure that was on the record.

Mr. Perron, you have six minutes.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here.

I'm going to continue with Mr. Lemaire.

You mentioned the labour problem. You've seen a change thanks to the 30% threshold in agri‑food, among other things.

If you had to quickly recommend a specific change to the government, particularly with regard to the temporary foreign worker program, what would it be? What change would you like to see changed tomorrow morning?

[Ron Lemaire]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Perron.

Immediate change for tomorrow would be easing and reducing the administrative burden on the farmer and also on those post the farm gates.

The challenge many farmers go through is the administrative burden of trying to go through the process of getting the labour in, and that is fundamental. Lots of these farmers, especially in the fruit and vegetable sector, do not have large operations, and the administrative burden that they have to deal with is extremely difficult. This goes back to issues Mr. Ross and our organization, the fruit growers of Canada, have been dealing with—reducing the red tape and improving and streamlining the system.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

In a few seconds, do you think that if we were to give fruit and vegetable producers greater financial security, the country's food resiliency would increase?

[Ron Lemaire]

Yes, I feel it would be a great opportunity to improve things for everyone.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Lemaire.

Mr. Ross, you said that the tariff on Russian fertilizer had contributed to higher prices. We've also had discussions with your Quebec counterpart, the Union des producteurs agricoles, which is asking for support to help farmers deal with the sudden inflation.

Are you still discussing this issue with the government? Have you received a response?

[Scott Ross]

We have ongoing dialogue on that front. I will note that the CFA has a cost of production committee that is exploring strategic responses to what we see as the concerns arising from the inflationary pressures on our sector.

I think this is a new norm that we're going to be dealing with for quite some time, so internally we are working very concertedly at coming together with some recommendations and ideas around how we need to be responding strategically to this issue, because it's not going to change overnight, nor will it necessarily abate in the coming years.

All I can attest to is that I will have more to share soon on that front.