Agriculture Committee on Oct. 26th, 2022

[Claire Citeau]

I think so. I wonder if that number includes fisheries or not.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Okay.

The Barton report had a goal of $75 billion by 2025, so it's pretty impressive that, despite the many challenges out there, we've already surpassed the target four years ahead of schedule. We had Canada's beef producers say that they have been surpassing their targets and doing quite well. I know there are challenges out there, but it seems like our farmers are indeed stepping up to the plate.

I also have the privilege of sitting on our public safety and national security committee. A few weeks ago we had, as a witness, the chief of defence staff General Wayne Eyre. He painted a very worrying picture of the world we're getting into with respect to Russia and China. I know that future conflicts may not be overt military actions, but they have a serious consequence for world trade.

I know your organization must be looking at the geopolitical context. Can you explore a little bit more on the theme of resiliency? If Russia and China are going to be major adversaries, as our chief of defence staff sincerely believes they will be, what kinds of contingency plans do we need to put in place with respect to our agricultural trade to take that into account?

[Claire Citeau]

I think a lot of the work that is being done both by officials and industry in terms of strengthening trade relations with key trading partners needs to continue to happen.

As a matter of fact, a portion of our members have really set their eyes on the Indo-Pacific Asia region, and one of the ways they are proposing to really tackle and do better in this market is by having boots on the ground. They as well as CAFTA are calling on the need for stronger advocacy capacity within the diplomatic networks so that our officials and those representing Canada, who already do a very important and good job promoting the sector, are equipped with the proper information and tools when it comes to preventing issues from becoming problems.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you.

I want to move on to Mr. Halstead.

Mr. Halstead, I want to carry on with the fertilizer discussion, because I think a lot of Canadians are getting mixed messages on this. Is it true that, depending on how you apply your fertilizer, you can get wildly different emissions resulting from it? Is that correct?

[Brett Halstead]

That's believed to be correct. There need to be some regional and even local studies done on how the different climates can affect that, but yes.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

I was just going to the website, and the Government of Canada says that there is no mandatory reduction in fertilizer use. They're, in fact, hoping for more collaboration with groups like yours, so in what form would you like to see that collaboration take place? We ultimately want to make recommendations to the government.

[Brett Halstead]

I guess it's reaching out. We've already had some discussions. We've been part of the fertilizer sector task force that's taken on some hearings. We've had people involved in that. We are carrying on with that, but like you said there are mixed messages. At first we didn't know what was going on. Now it's just emissions, but that wasn't the first message a lot of people heard—or the version of it that got out there, at least.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

I agree with you. There have been mixed messages. I appreciate that.

What also struck me with interest was what you said in your opening statement regarding the partnership you had with AAFC about different wheat variety breeding programs. We've had other witnesses talk about how you can increase yield through different varieties and how those varieties better withstand extreme weather events.

Can you maybe expand a little on that within the theme of food security and how that's helping your farmers meet their goals and the challenges of this century?

[Brett Halstead]

We do have a little more information in our briefing note. We're always working on environmental stressors, drought resistance and things like that. We're always looking at new and different ways we can breed. I'm not a breeder, but we fund the breeders and give them a strategic plan with things we want to accomplish as an industry.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you.

I'll donate the rest of my time to the chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Barlow]

Thank you very much, and merry Christmas to me. I appreciate that. Maybe I'll use it up at the end.

Now we'll move on to the Conservatives and Mr. Lehoux for five minutes, please.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses for being here with us this afternoon.

My first question is for Ms. Citeau.

You said that we should do more to develop our exports. However, even before the pandemic, non-tariff barriers were already being introduced fairly regularly by various countries. We also have little or no control over such measures.

What's your point of view on this? What do you make of these increasingly frequent non-tariff barriers?

[Claire Citeau]

They are indeed being used more frequently, unfortunately.

If we look at the past 20 years, a rather important period In trade liberalization, particularly owing to free trade agreements, agri-food trade tripled. Tariffs were accordingly reduced, but non-tariff barriers and other measures that have an impact on trade, also tripled. Surveys conducted and published in Geneva estimated that these non-tariff barriers cost from 20% to 40%. It amounts to a tariff that has to be added to the price of our exports.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

You also said that we had to be much more vigilant and specific in negotiating our new agreements and renewing our existing ones.

Do you feel it would be important for producers and processors to be at the negotiating table? We often arrive at the last minute, and the production and processing sectors are excluded from the negotiations that finalize the agreement. Do you feel we need to do more?

[Claire Citeau]

I can only speak on behalf of the members we represent, meaning the entire agri-food sector, except for horticulture and sectors subject to supply management.

We have very close ties with negotiators, Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, Global Affairs Canada and market stakeholders. We are never at the negotiating table of course, but we are involved and we provide the market outlook, which these negotiators do not have.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Indeed, the Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance has an impact, but it does not appear to be taken into account until the final phase of negotiations.

Thank you, Ms. Citeau.

I will now hand the rest of my speaking time over to my colleague, Mr. Shields.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you.

I have a couple of questions for both Mr. Halstead and Ms. Citeau.

It's the same question, in the sense of talking about harmonization and standards.

Our biggest trading partner is the United States, and it will continue to be. If we have a carbon tax of $170 and they have none, how do you feel that lack of harmonization will affect you and the trade?

[Claire Citeau]

I will leave that question to our members. This is something they are looking at individually. That does not affect them all equally, so it's not yet a CAFTA issue.

However, I'm happy to circle back, if there are those who want to provide comment.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Great.

Mr. Halstead, with regard to you as a producer, in the sense of the ripple effect of that tax, do you feel you will be as competitive as the largest trading partner to the south?

[Brett Halstead]

The Agricultural Producers Association of Saskatchewan, whom we partner with on some of these initiatives, estimates that there could be as much as seven times the increase in some of the costs of our inputs from before there was a carbon tax. It's significant. We can't survive long term on high commodity prices, which are hurting consumers too.

We need to be competitive globally. To be competitive globally, we also have to be profitable. That's how we can be sustainable.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Barlow]

Thank you very much, Mr. Shields.

Now we'll move to Mr. Turnbull, for five minutes, please.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thanks, Chair.

Thanks to all of the witnesses for being here today. My questions will be focused on Ms. Nikkel.

We're very happy to have you here. I have always admired the work of Second Harvest. For a number of years, I've known about the work you do. I thank you, your organization's leadership team and all of the volunteers and people who make up your organization.

You're a charitable organization. Is that correct?

[Lori Nikkel]

That's correct.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

You are solving food waste along the value chain within our food system. You divert that waste to feed hungry people, while also diverting organic waste and thereby reducing greenhouse emissions. Is that correct?