Agriculture Committee on Dec. 7th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

I call this meeting to order. Welcome, everyone.

This is the 43rd meeting of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food.

Of course, the reminder is that during the proceedings, we're in hybrid format today. Just so you're aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entire room in general.

In terms of other reminders, we are all experts here today. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Wednesday, November 2, 2022, the committee is commencing its study on the subject of supplementary estimates (B), 2022-2023, votes 1b, 5b and 10b under the Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food.

Of course, that gives us the privilege to welcome our honourable colleague Marie-Claude Bibeau, the minister responsible for agriculture and agri-food. Welcome, Minister Bibeau.

Joining her from the Canadian Food Inspection Agency is Philippe Morel, who is the vice-president of operations. From the department itself, we have Mr. Chris Forbes, who serves as the deputy minister, and Marie-Claude Guérard, the assistant deputy minister of corporate management branch. Welcome.

Minister Bibeau, it was great to see you in Saskatchewan at Agribition. Thank you for your work that you're doing. We know that this is a challenging time, and it's great to see you before the committee. I know my colleagues are looking forward to engaging with you constructively.

We have about five to seven and a half minutes. I will be reasonable with you. The floor is yours.

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We are here today to discuss the second round of supplementary estimates for Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada. Our investments under supplementary estimates (B) are one more proof that our government is taking action to help farmers and food processors, who have faced many challenges over the past year.

To name a few, there was the pandemic, the invasion of Ukraine and significant weather disasters such as the floods in British Columbia. All of these have been in the context of high input costs. There were also plant and animal health issues, such as the avian influenza and potato wart. The government continues to work with producers and processors to advance on mutually shared priorities like competitiveness, food security and sustainability.

Supplementary estimates (B) total $258.5 million, which brings AAFC's total budget to almost $3.4 billion. Clearly, Mr. Chair, we are there to support the livelihood of our farmers and food processors and we are taking concrete action to respond to their needs. To point to a few highlights, the estimates are helping B.C. farmers who were impacted by the devastating floods. That includes $108 million for 2022-23 to help producers cover the costs of the cleanup of agricultural lands and buildings, repairs of structures and equipment, and extra transport costs to protect livestock, agricultural inputs and so on.

I was able to visit affected producers and I can tell you that our assistance was necessary during such a difficult time.

As well, the estimates allocate $33 million for our wine sector. This will give wineries the tools they need to stay innovative and competitive.

Other investments under our estimates are helping farmers to adapt and strengthen their resilience to climate change. That includes an extra $48.1 million for the on-farm climate action fund and the agricultural clean technology program. These two programs are game-changers, helping thousands of producers make investments in their operation to increase their competitiveness and sustainability.

In addition to helping our farmers deal with the challenges they have encountered this year, we have helped various industries, in particular supply-managed industries, to adapt to changes in the trade environment.

In the 2022 fall economic statement, the government announced that it would be injecting an additional $1.7 billion in compensation for the impact of CUSMA, the Canada—United States—Mexico Agreement. That includes $300 million for a new investment and innovation fund that will add value to the surplus of non-fat solids, a by-product of milk processing.

The new funds will therefore bring total investments to be paid by our government to supply-managed sectors for the three trade agreements—CUSMA, the Canada-European Union Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement, and the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership—to $4.8 billion. A promise is a promise, and this promise has been kept.

Recently, with respect to export-oriented industries, when the Prime Minister participated in the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum, he announced new investments to support trade in the Indo-Pacific region, a market that has a lot of potential for Canada. The investments include $31.8 million to establish the first Canada Agriculture and Agri-food office in the region, to support Canadian food exports. The world is changing and evolving, and Canada must continue to diversify its foreign markets.

To sum up, we will spare no effort to support our agricultural producers and our food processing enterprises. We are here to help them recover from natural disasters and health challenges, prosper in a volatile environment, and make the transition to even more sustainable agriculture in the future.

I look forward to your questions this evening.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Minister.

We will now go to questions, starting with the Conservative Party.

Mr. Barlow, you have the floor for six minutes.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Thanks to the minister for being here.

It wasn't in the fall economic statement, nor did I see it in the supplementary estimates, but we do know that foot and mouth disease is a very real threat and potentially catastrophic to the Canadian beef industry. The Americans have already told us that they won't be sharing their stockpiles of foot and mouth disease vaccines. Will there be resources for a domestic foot and mouth disease vaccine bank in Canada in the upcoming budget?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Thank you. This is an important question.

I have more and more conversations on this issue. Actually, when I was in Paris, I took the opportunity to speak with the head of the World Organisation for Animal Health to seek her advice. For now we're still collaborating on the joint vaccine bank, but I understand that it would be.... We are looking at different options right now. This is something we are actively working on.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thank you.

We also know that Health Canada issued the clarified guidance in May on the transparency of gene-edited products that will enable critical innovation. However, CFIA has still not signed off on that guidance. I understand that the breeding innovation guidance that we are desperately waiting for is complete and sitting on your desk waiting for your signature.

Will you be signing that framework before the end of this calendar year, yes or no?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

As you know, our government supports science and innovation, and I strongly believe that gene-editing development and innovation is important for the industry. At the same time, I just want to make sure that we do it in the correct way and we protect the integrity of the organic sector. We will find the path forward to make it available to our producers in a timely manner.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

I'm not hearing a definitive answer there. We know that Argentina, Australia, Brazil and the United States have all passed this guidance. Dr. Martin Duplessis from Health Canada has publicly debunked most if not all of the unfounded claims that you are listening to. I would encourage you to move along and get this signed.

When asked in question period on November 23 about the impact the carbon tax would have on farmers, the Prime Minister said that more than 80% of Canadians, including farmers, get more back than they pay in the carbon tax. Is that an accurate statement?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

For the carbon tax rebate, nine out of ten families are receiving more than what they paid as the price for pollution. Because farms are businesses, that is obviously a different issue.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

You are saying that a farm family would be getting more money back from a carbon tax rebate than what they're paying, which is what the Prime Minister said in question period. I want to make sure that's what you're saying.

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Most farms are incorporated. I know there are farms...

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

I'm sorry, but I'm not getting the translation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Perhaps we could just have the minister pause.

Are you hearing me, Mr. Barlow?

No. Okay. I stopped the clock.

You can continue, Minister.

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

It is important to distinguish between family and business. When we talk about families, nine out of ten families are getting more money. For farm families that are not incorporated, I do not have precise information. However, I wanted to distinguish between the families and the businesses.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

When appearing at committee on Bill C-234, finance officials stated that the average rebate for farmers through Bill C-8's farm carbon tax rebate was about $860. Was that statement accurate?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

I am not able to give you the exact figure.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

CFIB's research shows that the average farm pays $45,000 in carbon tax. The Grain Farmers of Ontario have stated that they only receive about 15% of what they pay in a carbon tax back through Bill C-8. Now we see that the food price guide states that by 2030 the carbon tax will cost farmers more than $150,000 per year. How do you defend the carbon tax and the impact it's having on Canadian farm families?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

At present, the climate crisis is certainly the biggest threat for the agriculture sector and global food security. On that subject, we need only think of last summer's droughts in the Prairies, the floods in British Columbia and the hurricanes in the Atlantic. That is actually the biggest threat.

I am seeing it on the ground because I travel everywhere in Canada. I am constantly talking with agricultural producers and I see the extent to which grain, dairy and beef producers are involved in this battle against climate change.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thank you. I would disagree. There isn't a farmer I have spoken to who says, “I would prefer higher taxes,” or “Tax me out of business.” That is certainly not what I am hearing at all.

I think I have time for one more question.

Minister, you were at the OECD meeting in Paris. I was there with you. You co-chaired that meeting, and you also had a ministerial statement come out of that. The statement says that to increase climate change mitigation efforts, we want to reduce emissions from agriculture and food systems, including things like fertilizer.

Can you confirm where in that statement it says fertilizer emissions reductions will be voluntary?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

That was a joint statement. For Canada, I repeat that our intention is to emphasize incentives that help producers, in which we have invested $1.5 billion dollars.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Did you say it would be voluntary at the OECD?

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Excuse me—

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Absolutely. In Canada, we hope it will be voluntary.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Barlow.

Ms. Taylor Roy, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for coming to meet with us today, Minister.

I have several questions to ask, but I am going to split my speaking time with my colleague Mr. Turnbull.

Thank you, Mr. Barlow, for introducing the OECD.

That's what I was going to ask about, because most of us know heads of state go to the OECD for these meetings, but not everyone knows about the minister's involvement. It was an honour to see Canada co-chairing the agriculture meeting.

Beyond the voluntary reduction in emissions and fertilizers, I'm wondering whether you could tell us about any other topics discussed that are of particular importance to Canada, and whether there were any notable outcomes or takeaways from that.