Agriculture Committee on Dec. 7th, 2022

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Minister, and thank you, Mr. MacGregor.

We'll now go to Mr. Lehoux for five minutes.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Hello, Minister. Thank you for being with us this afternoon.

You are certainly aware that the committee discussed imports of Ukrainian poultry products last week. My colleague mentioned it earlier. Why did you decide to issue an import permit?

Earlier, you told my colleague Mr. Barlow that in another sector where the issue was genetics, you wanted to take more time. In the case of Ukrainian chicken, all of the witnesses who appeared last week expressed a great deal of concern. Why was more time not taken to properly assess the scope of this entire question? Why did you act faster than in the case raised by my colleague?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

The decision was made last June. The people at the Canadian Food Inspection Agency took the necessary time to do all the assessments and proceeded as they would have done with other trading partners to make sure we could have confidence in the product that would be entering Canada. Obviously, we had to make sure that the product was safe, in accordance with the Safe Food for Canadians Act.

With all due respect to the committee, I must point out that this decision had to be based on the science.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

You talk about respect for the members of the committee and the work they do, but that bothers me a bit, Minister. You only had to wait just a few days.

Some very interesting questions were raised last week, anyway. The committee was getting ready to write a letter, and you could at least have waited for it to do that, even if it did not contain any large-scale recommendations. I care about this situation because it raises the issue of the respect shown for bodies like our committee.

Reference was made to the Minister having held a consultation on the issues discussed last week, but the stakeholders were not consulted. As we know, predictability is important for the people whose production is under supply management. Why were they not rapidly consulted?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

It is a decision that was made in the context of all the support we are offering Ukraine. We have done certain things to support that country and we have imposed major sanctions on Russia.

Some key stakeholders actually were consulted, but our consultation was certainly not as broad as the ones we do in other circumstances, such as when we put programs into effect in connection with trade agreements.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Yes, it was not as broad a consultation as you would have liked, but it would still have been appropriate to communicate with those people.

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

We communicated with some of them.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Based on the testimony heard last week, I would say that there was no communication with a majority of them. It would have been worthwhile for the key witnesses to be consulted.

That brings me to the question of supply management. You say you are protecting it. In your statement, you mentioned money that has been put on the table. However, I am having trouble reconciling your saying that you are protecting supply management and the fact that compensation is being given for the concessions granted to foreign products that will be competing with ours.

At the beginning of the summer of 2022, you said there would be no more such concessions. In the case of the Ukrainian chicken, I want to believe that this opening of our markets will last only one year, but we have to understand that its effects will be felt here for more than one year, two years even, given that we are talking about frozen products.

When you say you want to protect supply management, are those just empty words, Minister?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

That is certainly not the case.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Right.

The representatives of the Department of Finance who met with us last week told us that they may have acted precipitously. I thought it was interesting that they suggested that. You, however, do not seem to think that it was done precipitously.

Do you believe the way you did things was entirely proper?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

The decision was made and some stakeholders were consulted. I want to say, again, that the measure is an exceptional and temporary one.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

I agree with you. This measure is temporary, yes, but it nonetheless represents a hole in supply management. I have contacts outside Canada and I can tell you that many countries are following what is currently going on and people may try to be a bit more aggressive in what they ask for.

I am a bit disappointed with how this issue has been handled. You are not obliged to share my view, but, because I was an agricultural producer, I know a bit about the field.

I am now going to come back to the question my colleague addressed earlier, our friend the carbon tax.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Unfortunately, Mr. Lehoux, your speaking time is up. I did receive your Christmas card, but I still have to stop you here.

Thank you.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

That is not actually why I gave you a card, Mr. Chair. I should have waited until next week to give it to you!

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you.

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Louis, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair, and thank you, Minister, for being here. I appreciate that.

Maybe we can pick up the conversation where the last one left off. We were talking about the potential shipments of chicken to Canada from Ukraine. The Canadian Food Inspection Agency said the companies were complying with all of the Canadian regulations. The CFIA is doing full inspections for the first 10 shipments, and there are about three companies possibly involved. That would be about 30 inspections, and then about one in 10 shipments would get inspected.

Is that a fair assessment?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

The first 10 will by systematically inspected, and then it will be done on a risk-based analysis.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I also understand the CFIA consulted national associations for both the chicken and the dairy industries. Is that also correct?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Are you talking about the CFIA, or are you talking about the government, when we made the decision?

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I am referring to the CFIA, Minister.

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

I don't understand the question. Why would the CFIA have consulted the stakeholders? There's something that I don't get in your question. I'm sorry.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

That's fine. I just wanted to clear up some things, because we met with the CFIA last week.

Maybe I'll stay with supply management.

We know that our free trade agreements with trade partners are obviously important for the Canadian economy and for opening up markets for our farmers. We also know the importance of supporting our supply management sector. As we fully and fairly compensate Canadian supply-managed sectors affected by the agreements with the European Union, the trans-Pacific partnership or the United States and Mexico, with regard to the CUSMA trade agreement, you recently announced Canada's commitment to providing over $1.7 billion to Canada's supply management sector.

Can you explain how producers and processes will be able to benefit from this compensation package?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

As you know, we have already provided all of the compensation for the two free trade agreements with the European Union and the CPTPP. Only the CUSMA was left. There is $1.7 billion that I have announced for CUSMA. The amount of $1.2 billion will go to the dairy farmers in the same way as the first payment they received.

Dairy farmers already know their payment for 2023, because it's the last of the four for the previous agreement. Then, starting in 2024, they will start receiving compensation for six years, still through direct payments, based on their 2024 quota. For an average farm of 80 dairy cows, it will represent about $106,000 over six years.

For the dairy sector, there is also a $300-million innovation and investment fund dedicated to support the industry with its structural surplus of solids non-fat.

For the poultry and egg sector, we are adding $105 million to this fund. It's actually the same investment fund as the one it had for the two first agreements. We're just increasing the amount of money. This will also be distributed based on their quota, but it's not a direct payment. It's an investment fund. It's actually $112million for poultry and egg and $105million for the processors. It will be the same investment program as they had in the two first agreements.