Evidence of meeting #67 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was growers.
A video is available from Parliament.
8:05 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Oh, perfect. That's more time than I thought. Wonderful. The luxury of time doesn't usually come easily around here.
Ms. Lee, perhaps I'll ask you a question. How do you anticipate that this bill will impact the trade and marketing of perishable fruits and vegetables?
8:05 p.m.
Executive Director, Fruit and Vegetable Growers of Canada
I will actually turn that over to Quinton. He's more of a marketer than I am.
Thank you.
8:05 p.m.
Chair, Trade and Marketing Working Group, Fruit and Vegetable Growers of Canada
I truly believe that this would help promote and increase our trade, both domestically and abroad. This is a bill that would offer people peace of mind and allow them to sleep at night, knowing that they have access to some sort of money at the end of the day.
The reality is that 10% of your payable could keep you living for another day. That's the protection that we don't have now. Most of our growers in bankruptcy are walking away with nothing.
8:05 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
It's really about risk management and financial stability for our fruit and vegetable growers. Is that right?
8:05 p.m.
Chair, Trade and Marketing Working Group, Fruit and Vegetable Growers of Canada
Absolutely.
The reality is that we're talking high-value crops, the necessities of life, the basic fruits and vegetables. Our growers just want peace of mind and assurance that they're going to get some sort of payment at the end of the day.
8:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Kody Blois
Thank you, Mr. Turnbull.
Thank you, Mr. Woods.
Mr. Perron, you have the floor for six minutes.
8:05 p.m.
Bloc
Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank the witnesses who are with us today, whether online or in person. We're pleased to have you here. We all know that other tasks await you on your farms, and that your time is precious.
My questions are for Ms. Lefebvre or Mr. Léger Bourgoin.
Earlier on, I was discussing something with Mr. Davidson and we didn't have time tofinish. It was about identifying who was being protected. Mr. Drouin addressed this to some extent when he asked whether it was the growers we really wanted to protect, or rather the distributors. I know that many of you deal with wholesalers.
At what stage in the process does it become essential to ensure that the money gets to the growers when there is a claim and a payment to be made?
8:05 p.m.
President, Quebec Produce Growers Association
It's a domino effect. As I was saying earlier, the products that leave the farm are extremely perishable. We don't know what's going to happen in the process once our products have been delivered to the initial buyer, or how important it is in this bill to protect growers first and foremost. The important thing is really to start at the bottom of the ladder.
8:05 p.m.
Bloc
Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
We're going to make sure that it's formulated in a way that would ensure this. It's important to specify this concern properly.
I asked Mr. Davidson another question about a matter that is frequently raised by the opposition, which is the fact that the total losses for all creditors in the Canadian fruit and vegetable sector represents less than 0.1% of total sales in recent years. The conclusion was that this figure was artificially low.
Ms. Lefebvre or Mr. Léger Bourgoin, do you have any comments to make on that?
8:05 p.m.
General Manager, Quebec Produce Growers Association
Well, like any other entrepreneurs, produce growers analyze their opportunity costs before investing in a new or existing market. The case in point right now is the export market to the United States.
Although the bankruptcy situation exists, there's another situation that I would call "latent". It's similar to what Mr. Woods explained earlier. As soon a company is in a poor financial position, produce growers can very quickly have the rug pulled out from under them.
Right now, producers considering entering the American market have three options.
The first is to reject the American market and give up potential sales to a population of 332 million, because they feel the risk is too high.
The second is to monitor the client's line of credit very closely, and as soon there appears to be an issue, or a liquidity problem, stop shipments or simply cut business ties.
The final option, which you yourself mentioned earlier, would be to accept partial payment in settlement of the debt because it's impossible to retrieve these highly perishable products.
8:05 p.m.
Bloc
Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
Thank you.
Let's return now to the possibility of adopting this bill fairly quickly—we're all hoping for it and things have been going smoothly so far—and restoring protection in the United States as provided in the American PACA act.
There's been a lot of talk in your sector about reciprocity for standards pertaining to requirements and about what can enter the country from abroad. It was pointed out earlier that there were a lot of imports. We have been wondering whether these standards would be the same in Canada.
In connection with financial protection, you already know that American producers are much better protected than you are in the event of non-payment.
Do you feel you are working on a level playing field, given the foreign competition?
8:10 p.m.
President, Quebec Produce Growers Association
At the moment, we are definitely not working on a level playing field.
The reciprocity of standards is hurting us, and we don't have the reciprocity provided under the PACA.
As you were saying earlier, that elicits a number of problems in connection with the sustainability of our sector.
We are indeed not on a level playing field.
8:10 p.m.
Bloc
Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
So the adoption of this bill would have a highly positive impact.
Do you have any other comments about the importance of passing this bill?
There may be something we haven't yet discussed. There might be concerns about the enforcement of the act if the bill is passed, at least in the initial months.
8:10 p.m.
President, Quebec Produce Growers Association
I'll ask my colleague to answer your question.
8:10 p.m.
General Manager, Quebec Produce Growers Association
Essentially, action is needed urgently and we need the financial protection mechanisms in Bill C‑280.
Production costs have been increasing substantially for two or three years now. Transportation costs, including the price of diesel, to ship products to the United States have increased dramatically. The financial risk for the Canadian horticultural sector is greater than ever.
I might also add the fact, which you yourself mentioned earlier, Mr. Perron, that extreme weather conditions can, from one day to the next, cause considerable losses.
It's unrealistic to think, given the current economic context in our sector, that we can continue to have access to the huge U.S. market without some form of protection.
8:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Kody Blois
Thank you, Mr. Perron.
To conclude the first round of questions, I'm now giving the floor to Mr. MacGregor for six minutes.
8:10 p.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all of our witnesses.
Mr. Currie, I think this is your first appearance as president of the CFA since your inauguration. I want to offer you congratulations. You're certainly no stranger to this table.
I'd like to put my first question to you. As president of the Canadian Federation of Agriculture, you're kind of flying at 30,000 feet, and you have the bird's-eye view of the entirety of Canada's agricultural sector.
You know, there's a lot of support for this bill around this table, but at times we have to play devil's advocate and try to think of what some of the objections would be. I think we've heard a very real and solid case for why this bill is necessary for the fresh fruit and vegetable sector, but some people may ask about other perishable products in other sectors such as dairy, eggs and various meats.
Some of those sectors are under supply management, which has its own ways of doing things. As president of CFA, could you respond to some of the concerns that might be raised about other perishable products in other sectors?
8:10 p.m.
President, Canadian Federation of Agriculture
Certainly there are risks in all aspects of agriculture, no question about it, but in most other industries outside of horticulture there are protection types of assets available to producers in various different types of ways. There are business risk management tools. There's insurance that you can buy. There are options for growers and producers that they can purchase or they can secure to at least minimize the risk of growing that product.
However, with horticulture that's not so much the case. Not only would this bill ensure that financial protection, but let's not lose sight of the confidence that it gives growers to go forward, to not only grow for the year but to look at growing their business, expanding their business. There's the economic input that has, not only for the immediate rural area with further employment but all the communities it's going to support and grow down the road, as well as the food security issue, both domestically and internationally. That's why this bill is important.
You're right. There are other products grown out there, agricultural products, that do face risks, but those other products along the way have some tools available to them that can help support the minimization of that risk.
8:15 p.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Thank you very much for that.
Mr. Webber, I'd like to turn my questions to you and this may allow you to expand on your opening statement.
Our committee in the previous Parliament, when we were looking at business risk management programs, came out with a recommendation, one of several recommendations, to create this statutory deemed trust. In the government's response to that particular recommendation, they said, and I'm going to quote from the response:
Under the Safe Food for Canadians Regulations, fresh produce sellers and buyers who trade inter-provincially and internationally are required to be members of a single dispute resolution body, the Fruit and Vegetable Dispute Resolution Corporation. This in itself provides additional protection for our fresh produce farmers and sellers.
Do you have any additional comments or response to that particular couple of sentences we saw in the government response to our recommendation?
8:15 p.m.
Past President and Chief Executive Officer, Fruit and Vegetable Dispute Resolution Corporation, As an Individual
I think it's an accurate statement, as far as it goes. Certainly, the DRC provides dispute resolution, but this bill is not about dispute resolution. This bill is about getting paid when there's been an insolvency.
I don't have any problem with that statement. The DRC is very important to the industry. It, quite frankly, satisfies part of PACA's requirement to return reciprocity with the United States. Again, the DRC cannot do anything with an insolvent firm.