Agriculture Committee on Nov. 3rd, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

We're going to stop there. I gave you an extra 40 seconds because of the interruption. I'm sorry, I had to cut you off.

[Jasmin Guénette]

I understand.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

Thank you.

Next, we have MP Chatel for six minutes.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac—Kitigan Zibi, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being here today.

Mr. Fraser, I recently had the opportunity to meet with your colleagues to talk about your platform aimed at stimulating innovation on farms. The government is very supportive of you in that regard. We know that farmers have always been among those who innovate the most, so it's good to hear about that kind of partnership.

You also mentioned earlier that the agriculture and agri-food sector was one of our most important economic drivers. That opinion is shared not only by the International Monetary Fund, but also by the World Bank and the OECD. However, you rightly pointed out that your biggest issue is the regulatory burden, since it slows down productivity and innovation.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on governance, since you gained experience in that at the University of Guelph. Witnesses have told us that structural changes are needed to solve the problem of growing regulations that are slowing down innovation. There was talk about changing agencies' mandates.

However, to go even further, would it be possible to look for existing innovations? For example, the agile regulations table identified 150 problems for the sector. How can the government take action and solve those problems in a sustainable and structural way? Is there some governance that can be set up in that regard?

[Evan Fraser]

That is a wonderful question. Thank you very much.

The key thing to keep in mind is that agriculture is changing very quickly. I agree with your earlier statement that, yes, farmers are very innovative, and the pace of technological change is beyond that that, say, an individual farmer, can keep up with. I look to advances in robotics or genomic technologies, which are proceeding so quickly that it is very difficult for an owner-operator—even the most innovative owner-operator—to stay up to date. There is an enormous need to help position agriculture in order to embrace all forms of innovation.

I sometimes say that the farmers of the future are just as likely to wear a lab coat as they are to drive a tractor. I believe that—

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

Mr. Fraser, can we pause for a second? I think we have an issue.

Mr. Perron, please go ahead.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

The interpreter is telling us that the sound quality is poor.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

Mr. Fraser, I'm going to have to ask you to stop. Perhaps you can submit the answer to the committee, if possible. If you have anything else you'd like to submit, please do so.

Unfortunately, there's some feedback that is causing a challenge with interpretation.

Mr. Barlow, please go ahead.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Just so we're clear—and Ms. Phillips might have the same issue—we can still ask the questions. However, they'll have to provide their responses in writing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

Absolutely.

Okay, let's go back.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac—Kitigan Zibi, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Indeed, Mr. Fraser, you can submit to us in writing the possible ways to avoid an accumulation of regulations, which hinders productivity and innovation.

Earlier, you also mentioned a way to eliminate the risk associated with investments in this industry. You said you'd be willing to give us the details. I'd very much like to have those details, so I encourage you to attach them to your answer. The same goes for innovation, as well as for the fourth point you raised, the research councils. Those are all good solutions, and it would be great to have them in writing. We can put them in our report.

Mr. Guénette and Ms. Nicolaÿ, thank you very much for being here.

What structural measure could we implement in our governance system to avoid the accumulation of regulations and take action to resolve the 150 problems identified by the agile regulations table? What's currently missing from our governance system?

[Juliette Nicolaÿ]

One of the first ways to do that would be to follow the two-for-one rule, meaning that for every new regulation introduced, two others should be removed. That alone would make it possible to remove a good number of regulations that have become superfluous and have no particular purpose—

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac—Kitigan Zibi, QC]

Allow me to interrupt on that.

I understand that, but who will decide which two regulations will be removed? How will that be determined? What I like about the agile regulations table is that it involves sitting at the table with producers.

[Jasmin Guénette]

To remove regulations, people in the industry and our agri-business members have to sit down together to discuss what's unnecessary and redundant.

Last year, we published a report on the regulations in Canada. We estimated that they cost around $51 billion. However, it would be possible to eliminate regulations and save $18 billion without affecting the health and safety of workers and consumers.

To reduce red tape, it's possible to talk to the people who are directly affected by it to see what can be removed. There's currently the one-for-one rule, but we don't know if it's being followed perfectly. If the goal is really to reduce red tape, it's important to adopt the two-for-one rule.

For our members, it's equally important to improve customer service. Rather than thinking about new structures, then, if our members—

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

I'm sorry, sir. I've given you an extra 15 seconds. It's the way the questions are being laid out.

Mr. Perron, you have six minutes.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here.

Mr. Guénette, I'll let you finish your previous answer.

[Jasmin Guénette]

To improve services, we'd like to see a number of things.

First, there should be an easy-to-access, user-friendly website that uses familiar language and where information is easy to find for our agri-business members.

Second, when people call the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, someone has to respond to them and give them accurate information. As my colleague mentioned, sometimes contradictory information is given from one inspection to the next, so that would already be a major improvement.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Mr. Guénette and Ms. Nicolaÿ, how do you explain that things are different from one inspector to the next? Is it because the directives or standards are unclear? Is it because the scope of their autonomy isn't defined well enough? Are there inspectors who take cases personally? We also hear a lot of examples like that.

[Juliette Nicolaÿ]

What we're hearing is that the regulations are unclear for SMEs, so maybe they're unclear for some inspectors too. We've heard of a number of cases where farmers were told completely contradictory things from one inspection to the next. They had to adapt based on what they were told during a first inspection, and then they were told something that went in the opposite direction during a second inspection. All of that not only leads to costs, but also wastes time and causes stress. Ultimately, it has an impact on our economy and even on entrepreneurship in general.

[Jasmin Guénette]

Let me add that we've heard the same kind of comments about the Canada Revenue Agency.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

I'd held back from saying that. It's good that you said it. It completes the picture.

You're saying that the regulations are unclear and that the directives given are inconsistent from one inspection to the next. Do you have any concrete examples of that? If you don't have any right now, could you provide us with a few concrete examples later, without naming the businesses, of course? We don't want to compromise anyone. However, those examples would enable us to clearly see the differences in the directives given.

[Jasmin Guénette]

Yes, we'll provide you with documentation after the meeting. We have a list of what we call irritants. We note a number of regulations that could be removed. Our report on the Canadian Food Inspection Agency also includes a number of comments from entrepreneurs about their experience. We'll certainly be able to send you that information.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you very much, Ms. Nicolaÿ and Mr. Guénette.

I'm really sorry that the witnesses who are joining us by video conference are having sound issues. However, they'll understand that we have to protect the hearing health of our interpreters. I'm still going to ask them a few questions, and they can provide us with their answers in writing.

Ms. Phillips, from what you said, I understood that there was a major problem with the reciprocity of standards. We hear about that problem all the time. It seems that nothing is ever implemented to address that problem or control the situation.

We heard from fruit and vegetable growers who talked about carrots from China, where there are probably products in use that are banned here. You're now saying that imported honey has been modified. If I've understood you correctly, we have to take action on the reciprocity of standards. I'm going to admit that when we start asking questions about this, we realize that the situation isn't simple. Three different agencies are managing this file, and every time we question someone, we're directed to another agency. One thing we could do to help our local producers, then, would perhaps be to have a single agency in charge of reciprocity of standards.

You seem to like what I'm saying, Ms. Phillips.

Mr. Guénette, I don't know if you want to add any details on the reciprocity of standards. Have you had discussions about it?

[Jasmin Guénette]

Generally speaking, we're talking about the principle of mutual recognition: What's good for being produced, consumed and sold in one province should also be available in all the other provinces, without any other regulatory requirements. That applies to all kinds of products, including food products.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

When you hear about products from abroad, I imagine you're told that this is currently a problem for some of the businesses you represent. You have agricultural producers among the members of your organization. For example, our carrot warehouses in Quebec are full, and the prices are at their lowest, while our major grocery stores sell carrots from China.