Agriculture Committee on Feb. 3rd, 2026

[Calvin Vaags]

I don't think it's as big an issue as they make it out to be. Of course, their argument would be that they can't do that because their pricing will not be confidential anymore. I think there is a way that can be set up so that it could be done.

However, you've hit the nail on the head. That's the nut of the problem. I think you'll get full support at an individual or entity level. You'll get a majority of players in the industry who will want it, but from a market share perspective, it gets a little dicey because the bigger market share will say no, they don't want it.

Who do you listen to? Do you listen to the individual players or the market share?

[Marianne Dandurand, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Thank you.

Ms. Moudi, you're from Quebec. On the weekend, I had a conversation with a beef producer in my area. I'd like to acknowledge Mr. Armin Ruf, whom everyone knows in my area. He told me that it would be very relevant to have a Canadian reference price. He also told me that there are major differences in Quebec. He even advocated a reference price for Quebec, given that environmental standards may be higher there.

I'd like to know your opinion on that.

Can a Canadian reference price be representative of the situation in Quebec? Would we need something more specific?

[Indira Moudi]

I can confirm that the Canadian reference price would be effective for Quebec. I'll explain why.

I'm in Quebec, and I comply with federal standards and all applicable regulations. I want to stress that that is important. Otherwise, it will complicate the situation, and we'll never succeed.

[Marianne Dandurand, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Thank you very much.

This will be my last question. You all talked about the current price of beef. I'd like you to repeat something. I have colleagues who talk a lot about food prices in general.

In your opinion, are climate change impacts and extreme weather events among the biggest causes of the increase in food prices?

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to stop you. The five minutes have gone.

Mr. Perron, go ahead for two and a half minutes.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Is it true that climate change has an impact on food prices?

[Indira Moudi]

The fact that the beef production sector has pasture farms, which have carbon sequestration practices, helps mitigate the effects of climate change.

In Canada, we have very good practices.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Okay, but that's not really the question.

We're currently debating this issue in the House. It's said that climate change, extreme events, droughts and floods have an impact on agricultural producers.

Is that true? Does it affect you in some way or not at all?

[Indira Moudi]

It has an impact on our agriculture, in the medium and long term. It's important to know that the AgriStability program provides a safety net for farmers and breeders.

By the way, there is no program for processors. The program we proposed will also protect processors against climate change.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Okay. Thank you.

There should eventually be an impact. My colleagues could include that in their next study.

I'd like to come back to pricing.

First, I am happy to see you again, Ms. Moudi.

[Indira Moudi]

Thank you.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

You said earlier that everyone will agree, except the major players, and that they'll say they can't give us the price. However, aren't these major processors already required to do so in the United States?

That would be a false excuse, a fake answer, from the major companies. It's a bit of what we saw during the committee's study on the major grocers.

It seems that whenever a sector is controlled by two or three large companies, nothing can be controlled anymore. That's where the money is concentrated, and it's the small players, the producers, the suppliers and the customers, who have to pay.

What do you think?

[Calvin Vaags]

I'm not quite sure I understand the question completely, but—

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

I'll quickly rephrase my question.

You mentioned earlier that the major processors, Cargill and JBS, would say that they can't share their prices.

Aren't they already required to do so in the United States? The information is already public, in a way, so they would be giving us a fake excuse.

Is that true or false?

I'm addressing anyone who wants to answer my question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

I'll give you 30 seconds.

[Calvin Vaags]

It's not true. Canadian packers do not have to report to the USDA on pricing. If you're in the U.S., you have to report, but you don't have to report if you're in Canada, so any basis differential developing in the Canadian market is hidden.

[Indira Moudi]

Actually, there are no regulations that require the data to be shared. Just as there are regulations requiring animal labelling, there are no regulations regarding the price. They use this excuse, but plants in the United States are required to provide their prices.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

Okay. Thank you.

We'll go to the Conservatives now for five minutes.

Mr. Gourde.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Thank you Mr. Chair.

I am a former beef producer. I sold my first animals at the age of 14, and I did business with the Lafrance slaughterhouse. In my day, there were many local slaughterhouses, so producers could shop around and sell their animals to several slaughterhouses. During times when animals were in short supply, it was possible to get good prices. The opposite was also true. When there was an oversupply, getting a good price was tough.

Over the years, the sector became concentrated. Many local slaughterhouses disappeared in Quebec. It was really a scourge. It changed the whole dynamic. We also saw a period when there was an oversupply of meat in North America. The large American slaughterhouses were dumping in Canada. They did it a lot in Quebec as well. Producers had to sell at ridiculous prices. Today, we've come to a situation where we have let things go for too long. For 30 years, beef has been sold at a price below the production cost for producers.

Today, there's a call to rebuild the herd. Don't think it will take two years. I expect it to take five or ten. You were generous, Ms. Moudi, when you said it would take seven years. The producers are my age. They're 62 years old. They're selling their businesses and retiring, and the land is being farmed by others. They're not growing forage anymore, and they're turning to grain production. It takes a lot of feed to produce beef. We'll come to a point later when there is too much grain, and perhaps not enough feeder cattle for the feed.

How do you see the future? You're going to have a cattle shortage. Slaughterhouses will compete for animals. It's a whole structure. The producers are happy, but it brings other problems.

The reference price is really the cash price. The cash price is for live animals. It's the best reference because it sends the best market signals. Then, the desire will be to control everything. The processors may be ready to come together to control a certain price when there's a shortage of meat, but they really weren't ready to do that and give us a chance over the past 30 years, when there was an oversupply of meat.

Do you really think there will be enough co-operation to achieve this feat?

[Indira Moudi]

I believe there will be co-operation. We've learned our lesson. Food security relies on the diversification and proper functioning of our local slaughterhouse systems. If Canada allows this situation to continue and lets our slaughterhouse continue to close, it's really not addressing our food sovereignty. We can't afford that.

If we ever establish a reference price that allows producers to be competitive and showcase Canadian products processed in Canada, it will create a demand for Canadian products. The consumer wants it. When you have a large volume, it costs less. If each of these structures does a little more, if demand continues to increase, if the second shift emerges, at that point, we can move from 15% to 20% in terms of our capacity. It is absolutely doable, but there needs to be political and structural will to achieve it.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Quebec produces a lot of cattle. They're sold to Americans, and they're going to the United States. They then return to Canada, but it's no longer Canadian beef. It's American beef. We therefore lose the Canadian brand. We produce a lot of cattle, but we can't label it as a product of Canada. It's a problem.

[Indira Moudi]

It's a very big problem. That's why, if we ever implement the program related to the cost structure, which provides a safety net for local slaughterhouses by allowing them to buy and sell their products at a reference price, then we win the battle. This reference price reflects what the Canadian product costs.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

I'd like to hear from the other witnesses.

Should we defend our Canadian brand regarding cattle production? We have a good product, but unfortunately, when we send it to the United States for processing, it disappears.

Mr. Vaags, what do you think?

[Calvin Vaags]

Yes, it's important that we recognize that the industry is, number one, important, and that it has experienced challenges. Right now the challenge.... The cow-calf guy experienced challenges in the past 20 years and we did nothing, or not enough. I shouldn't say we did nothing, but we didn't do enough to make sure that the segment read the signals, reinvested in the next generation, reinvested in infrastructure and grew more cows. That's the essence of why we have high prices today, too high for many consumers. It's simple supply and demand. We do not have enough cows.

Then, if we look further into the industry, what's the next level? It's processing. If we continue to just say that we're going to let market dynamics play out.... Let's look at that for a minute. It's not like these small beef processors are losing money and the big players are doing fine. Everybody is losing money. It's just that the big players have deeper pockets, so that's the issue. The small guy needs a little help to get through this trough; otherwise, he's going to be obliterated.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

Thank you so much.

We go to the Liberals for five minutes.

Go ahead, MP Connors.