Evidence of meeting #33 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Riding Mountain, MB
Okay, that's good.
You did comment on AgriRecovery, and that it needs an overhaul. When I was president of KAP, I had many desperate phone calls when dealing with AgriRecovery.
Is there any particular legislation or regulations that need to be changed for that program to work properly? If you could table that with the committee for this report, that would be very much appreciated.
Chair, Business Risk Management Working Group, Fruit and Vegetable Growers of Canada
I'm not aware of any changes to legislation that would be required for this program to change, but we see a need to achieve its goal, which is continuity of operations.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Riding Mountain, MB
Would that go for the other organizations? If you have any suggestions on how we fix AgriRecovery.... I think it's kind of the Hail Mary of programs, as I always used to call it. It's when producers and areas are down on their knees. In rural Canada, it may be only 10 producers—and they get down to those numbers—but it's representing millions of dollars and families. They all know each other and they're all suffering. I think AgriRecovery really needs to be looked at from a human perspective and also a business perspective and the agriculture lens.
Another program we were mentioning earlier.... There is PACA, the Perishable Agricultural Commodities Act. There was a legislative change for perishable products. It was a guarantee for farmers, basically, so they didn't get shorted when they went to sell their product, if someone wanted to stiff them for payments.
I understand the legislation changed in 2024. I don't know how the Liberals are making out with that. Is it good, or are producers still left out hanging in the wind?
Chair, Business Risk Management Working Group, Fruit and Vegetable Growers of Canada
To my knowledge, the program is not fully implemented yet.
Chair, Business Risk Management Working Group, Fruit and Vegetable Growers of Canada
The law is there, but we haven't seen the benefits of the legislative change so far.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Michael Coteau
Thank you very much.
Next, we'll go to the Liberals for five minutes with MP Mingarelli.
Liberal
Giovanna Mingarelli Liberal Prescott—Russell—Cumberland, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here.
My initial questions will be for you, Ms. Lessard.
How does export uncertainty, including border disruptions or sudden market closures, affect fresh produce growers differently compared to other agricultural sectors?
Chair, Business Risk Management Working Group, Fruit and Vegetable Growers of Canada
Thank you for the question.
To begin with, I'd like to come back to the importance of exports for Canada's fruit and vegetable sector.
About half of everything produced in Canada is exported, mainly to the United States, although that can vary from sector to sector. That said, fruits and vegetables are perishable goods that are difficult to transport over long distances, so we need local markets. However, these markets can't easily be substituted.
We are seeing that, given the challenges in trade negotiations and the current political environment, it's more difficult than it once was to export fruits and vegetables to the United States. We need to ensure that this market remains open, because we can't simply start exporting lettuce to Asia or Europe, for example. We're not competitive. In any case, the perishable nature of these products must be taken into account.
We are asking that we ensure that the market remains available to producers. That's what enables us to keep our local production. If we have a strong export, we also have strong local production as well as products available at a lower cost to Canadians.
Liberal
Giovanna Mingarelli Liberal Prescott—Russell—Cumberland, ON
How do risk management support programs for Canadian fruit and vegetable producers compare with those available to competing producers in the United States or Mexico?
Chair, Business Risk Management Working Group, Fruit and Vegetable Growers of Canada
In my opening remarks, I spoke about the marketing assistance for specialty crops program, among other things. This program provides funding directly to producers in that sector so that they can use it as they see fit for their business.
We don't have that kind of support here, and we are at a disadvantage compared to our competitors when it comes to support for the agricultural sector.
It has also been said that federal investments in the agricultural sector represent less than 1% of overall spending, whereas support in other provinces is much higher. If we want to remain competitive, that support would need to be increased.
Liberal
Giovanna Mingarelli Liberal Prescott—Russell—Cumberland, ON
I have one last question for you. Are the business risk management programs currently responsive enough to address sudden trade shocks affecting perishable products?
Chair, Business Risk Management Working Group, Fruit and Vegetable Growers of Canada
I think the data we presented to you speaks for itself. Despite the assistance provided through the current business risk management programs, the financial situation of businesses has deteriorated. I think this shows the importance of reinvesting in support for businesses.
Liberal
Giovanna Mingarelli Liberal Prescott—Russell—Cumberland, ON
Thank you very much, Ms. Lessard.
How much time do I have left?
Liberal
Giovanna Mingarelli Liberal Prescott—Russell—Cumberland, ON
Okay, that's fantastic.
My next questions are for Mr. Beauvais.
Are current business risk management programs, such as AgriStability, AgriInvest, AgriInsurance and AgriRecovery, well suited to the realities of young producers and start-ups?
President, Fédération de la relève agricole du Québec
As my colleagues mentioned, these programs do help us, but they're not responsive enough. The delays are too long. The next generation needs a little more help than producers who have been established for 30 or 40 years, both in terms of timelines and the level of support.
AgriInvest, among others, is a program that works relatively well. However, when producers in the next generation lack sufficient capital to invest in their operations because of the challenges they face, they often have to work outside the farm to generate enough income. The program could certainly be better adapted.
Liberal
Giovanna Mingarelli Liberal Prescott—Russell—Cumberland, ON
Thank you, Mr. Beauvais.
I'm done, Mr. Chair.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Michael Coteau
Thank you.
For the Bloc, we have Monsieur Lemire.
You have two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Lessard, you spoke about the importance of the advance payments program. You said just how essential it is for it to become permanent in order to provide predictability. You also referred to an amount of $350,000 that is broadly supported.
The government has just released an economic update. Obviously, I think we all felt that this exercise could have been as simple as an email. Overall, for agriculture, it largely repeats existing measures. In this context, the increased limit of $250,000 is being maintained for just one year.
Are you satisfied with that and with the overall measures announced for agriculture in the economic update? Does the government understand the urgency of the situation?
Chair, Business Risk Management Working Group, Fruit and Vegetable Growers of Canada
I think we're proceeding on a case-by-case basis. An amount of $250,000 for this year is better than the base amount of $100,000 provided under the advance payments program. That said, year after year, our needs require that this limit be increased. That's why this time, we're asking that it not be reassessed every year. Producers need greater predictability for the future and need to know that they can count, year after year, on stronger support when they are starting the season.
The difficulty for vegetable and horticultural producers is that the amounts that must be paid at the beginning of the season are very high. It's extremely costly and puts pressure on the business's cash flow. Revenues often come in only toward the end of the summer, around September, October or November. We need support to get through this period. Not knowing what to expect from one year to the next, especially since announcements are sometimes made a little late, makes it difficult for producers to plan effectively.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Ms. Lefebvre, you mentioned the issues with the AgriRecovery program. We know that climate change is becoming increasingly prevalent. Clearly, the international context makes it more and more likely that farmers will need emergency assistance programs.
Should we make sure that we have much more flexible programs? I would like to hear what you have to say about that, what the challenge is and how the programs are adapted to the various regions. Is that being taken into account, or do the programs still focus too much on more urban areas?
President, Association des producteurs maraîchers du Québec
The main problem we experienced with the AgriRecovery program is that it took at least 20 meetings between the federal and provincial governments before a framework for AgriRecovery was established. Then it took 18 months before the program became available to producers. By that point, deficits had already been incurred, and loans had already been taken out.
In addition, what we've seen in Quebec is that the funds didn't go to the producers who needed it. Eligibility required higher expenses. Normally, if you have higher expenses, it means you tried to harvest as much as possible. Those who lost entire fields didn't have higher expenses, since they had plowed—