Evidence of meeting #46 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was consumers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Gurbux Saini Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Mr. Chair, I'm having difficulty with the interpretation.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Michael Coteau
My volume was very low as well, even though it's on at full blast.
We'll try that one more time.
Liberal
Marianne Dandurand Liberal Compton—Stanstead, QC
All right. So, I'll speak in French for the interpreters.
Liberal
Marianne Dandurand Liberal Compton—Stanstead, QC
My colleague from the Bloc Québécois is always pleased when I speak in French.
Liberal
Liberal
Marianne Dandurand Liberal Compton—Stanstead, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would also like to thank my colleague for introducing a bill like this.
As a Quebecker, I have been seeing such labels on supermarket shelves for several years now, and I must say quite frankly that they help us make the right choices. It is not always easy to compare products, because the sizes differ from one product to another, or even for the same item, sometimes. When comparing the price of a 750-gram packet to that of an 849-gram packet, for example, having the price per unit really helps you choose the cheapest product. I think this is truly an initiative that can help families make wiser choices.
How many years has it been like this in Quebec? I have no idea, but I remember that people back then were expressing the same concerns and putting forward the same arguments as my Conservative colleague today. However, I no longer hear those concerns at all. It has become the norm. It's displayed and it's very clear.
So, thank you for raising this. I think it could benefit all Canadians.
Would your bill impose any obligation on the provinces to participate?
Liberal
Gurbux Saini Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
My bill, if passed, would require the Minister of Industry, in consultation with the provinces and territories—not by forcing them, but in consultation—to go through the process so that we can have a clear understanding of what is being done. It will not force any province.... Quebec already has legislation. The intent is not to interfere in that process.
What you have said is very important. A constituent who lives in my riding wrote a letter to me, and I'm going to read that to you. Olga is her name. She writes, “As a mother of five who does the grocery shopping every week, every dollar matters when you're buying food and household essentials in large quantities. My background is in mathematics and statistics, but even I do not want to stand in a grocery aisle calculating and converting different units to determine which product offers the best value. Bill C-226 would make shopping easier and more transparent for Canadians by helping consumers quickly compare prices and make informed decisions.”
These are decisions that support a family's budget.
Liberal
Marianne Dandurand Liberal Compton—Stanstead, QC
Thank you very much.
I would also add that the major retail groups operating in Quebec, which are already implementing this measure there, also operate elsewhere in Canada. I do not know whether you have had any discussions with them, but I imagine it would be relatively easy for these large groups to apply the labelling standards that already exist in Quebec elsewhere in Canada. This might be a matter you could discuss with them.
I know there is a significant educational aspect to your bill. I think it is important to raise awareness and educate people. Why is this important to you, and how is it reflected in your bill?
Liberal
Gurbux Saini Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
As part of the legislation, we will try to educate Canadians on how these labels should be read and what they mean. We have seniors and other people who may have difficulties. Education is part of the process with our legislation. Making sure that Canadians understand how to read these labels, what they mean and how to interpret them is part of the process.
Liberal
Marianne Dandurand Liberal Compton—Stanstead, QC
Thank you.
Do you think the bill could have an impact on what is known as shrinkflation? You mentioned it in your remarks. How do you think this sort of initiative might affect shrinkflation?
Liberal
Gurbux Saini Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
It's not that I think so; there's evidence to the effect that shrinkflation played a big part. As I said, Stats Canada, which looks at these price increases, says that 29.6%—close to 30%—of the price increases were strictly due to shrinkflation. The shape of the bottle was changed, which was misleading.
Yes, it plays a big part in this. This is why we need to make sure that Canadians are paying a price that is comparative and are making those decisions based on what they see, not what the retailer is trying to sell it to them for.
Liberal
Marianne Dandurand Liberal Compton—Stanstead, QC
Thank you.
I have very little time left. I would just like to say that I am very pleased to hear that this will not entail any additional obligations for Quebec, where similar provisions are already in place.
I would also like to say that I remembered the French word réduflation immediately after asking my question. So, for the record, the correct term is réduflation.
Liberal
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would like to reassure my colleague: Our interpreters did an excellent job, so it was easy for those following our proceedings in French to realize that she was talking about shrinkflation.
Mr. Saini, first of all, thank you for being here.
I have a simple question: who is responsible for consumer protection in Canada?
Liberal
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
It's my pleasure.
Who is responsible for consumer protection in Canada?
Liberal
Gurbux Saini Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
All levels of government have a duty to protect their citizens. Provincial, territorial and federal governments play a very important part in that. This is why having a law that protects Canadians right across Canada would be a great thing.
I want to congratulate the Province of Quebec for taking the lead. We have learned a lot from those things. They have gone through the process. The Quebec process will be a leading hand in making those decisions, in consultation with other provinces and territories.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
You've done your homework well. I thank you for that. You have, in fact, mentioned this to me on a few occasions.
Why did you choose to entrust responsibility for the framework to the Department of Industry? We know that it also manages the Canada Grocery Code, which was established jointly by two departments. Would it not be more appropriate for the Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food to take charge of this, given that, obviously, this code leaves many people wanting more—if you'll pardon the pun?
Liberal
Gurbux Saini Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
When I met with the people who draft the legislation, I was told that the industry ministry was the body responsible for this part of the work that gets done. This is the only reason. I don't disagree with you that maybe it should have been agriculture, but I was advised by the bureaucrats that this was the ministry. That's why I used the ministry as the lead for it.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Thank you for your transparency. This is, in fact, one of the key themes of what you are bringing to the bill.
Moreover, Quebeckers and Canadians are being asked to prioritize buying locally. Increasingly, campaigns on this issue are emerging. The government itself is making this a priority, in response to U.S. tariffs. We hear this time and again. People are responding well to this, and that is to be commended. Indeed, we should take the time, when at the supermarket, to look for products bearing the fleur-de-lys or the maple leaf—which may sometimes be a little more expensive—but which allow us to support our producers directly.
However, for me, one question remains: When I buy a product labelled as Canadian or Québécois, am I really buying a product that is made here and comes from here?
Under the current rules of the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, the packaging of a biscuit made from imported flour, oats, oil and sugar may bear the words “Made in Canada” if these products have been processed here. The only caveat is that the phrase “made with imported ingredients” must be added, in small print, on the packaging.
I've even seen a bottle of Coke labelled “Aliments du Québec”. I must admit that came as an unpleasant surprise.
There's a name for this, it seems, which I'll give you in English before translating it: it's “maple washing”, or canadoblanchiment, which refers to the practice of putting a maple leaf sticker on a product that isn't necessarily Canadian. In this regard, the CBC made some discoveries in supermarkets. For example, a bottle of oil featured a red maple leaf and the words “Made in Canada”, but in the small print, it was clear that it had been imported. The Canadian Food Inspection Agency has received around a hundred complaints about the origin of food products in less than a year.
People are being asked to do their bit, but they aren't being given the tools to do so. What we want is to support our local producers and processors by buying products that are genuinely local. Otherwise, our farmers lose out.
So, does your bill provide solutions to this problem? It talks about transparency. Does it open up possible avenues for improving transparency so that consumers can genuinely make an informed choice without feeling they're being taken in by the small print?
Liberal
Gurbux Saini Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
This bill is not about buying Canadian, although I definitely believe, as our government does, that we should be buying Canadian. The bill that I am proposing, Bill C-226, is for transparency in pricing. I can agree with the sentiment—I personally believe in that—but my bill strictly deals with transparency in food pricing.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
That's a shame.
Loblaws' electronic labelling supplier states on its website that its technology allows dynamic pricing to be applied directly on the shelves. This means that Loblaws can change its prices. It says that its pricing practices have not changed. However, at 5:00 p.m. on a Friday, when parents get home from work, they might pay more for their beef, only for the price to have dropped again by Saturday morning.
Is there any data on this? How can we ensure that this does not happen? Does your bill provide solutions to this?
Liberal
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Could a company such as Loblaws, which displays prices electronically, apply dynamic pricing—that is, offer products at higher prices during peak demand periods—and sell them more cheaply at other times?