Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) Committee on Feb. 5th, 2007

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

It's by wheelbase.

[Guylaine Roy]

For light-duty trucks.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

That formula or that standard being applied, that would be by vehicle class, as opposed to, say, an average across a fleet for fuel improvement. Is that fair to say?

[Guylaine Roy]

I'll let Catherine answer that question. She's the expert on that.

[Catherine Higgens, Director, Environmental Initiatives Division, Department of Transport]

You're referring to the reformed formula approach, I think. In that system, a fuel consumption standard or target is established for each vehicle in the market, ranked by size. The standard becomes, in effect, a formula that is composed of all the possible vehicles in the market, and a company's obligation under that standard is determined by the average of the number of vehicles they sell at each size.

So if they sell 10 large vehicles and 10 small vehicles, it's the average of those fuel consumption levels per vehicle. It's the average across the total number of vehicles they sell in the market, as opposed to one single number at the moment.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Can you explain to the committee the concept of a dominant North American standard for fuel efficiency?

[Guylaine Roy]

This is more a policy question, really, than a question for officials.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Fair enough.

[Guylaine Roy]

As we mentioned, the U.S. administration has moved forward in reforming the standard for light-duty trucks, so they're taking steps. California has taken another approach. But we cannot really comment on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

Okay, thank you very much.

Monsieur Paradis.

[Christian Paradis, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Earlier, Ms. Buckley, from the Department of Natural Resources, referred to a list that she could forward to us. I would officially like to request that that list of appliances be forwarded to the clerk, for study purposes. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

Okay.

Mr. Dewar.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I'm wondering if you would permit me time for questions. I've been waiting patiently here.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

No, sir, there have been 12 rounds of questions—

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

But I believe the rules are that each member gets a turn. I subbed in for Mr. Cullen, and I haven't had an intervention at this point.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

I understand the meaning of the word “member”. I also understand that there are 12 positions on this committee, and 12 positions have had rounds of questions.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I think if you read the rules verbatim as to what the requirement is, it says each member. I'm on the committee, and I haven't had an intervention yet.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

The rules also state that it's at the discretion of the chair, and the chair is using that discretion.

I understand the meaning of the word “member” and I understand that there are 12 positions on the committee. If we did that, then we could eventually have 308 people speaking at every—

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Well, I want to be clear here, Chair. What you're saying, then, is that you're going against—

I sat through Bill C-2 all spring, and what you're saying is that this particular member isn't allowed the past practice of what was allowed through Bill C-2, where we sat for—how long? It was a legislative committee, same thing.

So what you're saying is that there will be less participation, at least from this end, and I guess everyone else agrees with this.

I'd like to challenge your decision, because what you're saying is that, as a member, I'm not allowed to participate, when it was certainly the case in past practice on Bill C-2, a legislative committee, that we were allowed that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

I'll accept that challenge.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I'm just wondering what the logic is and if there's any other support around the table.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

Okay. It will be a very simple question, and you're free to challenge it.

My ruling is that there are 12 positions on the committee, and 12 members have had an opportunity to question. My ruling, which is at my discretion, is no.

Now, you are free to challenge the chair, and I won't take it personally.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

You should never take it personally, Mr. Chair.

What we're saying is that the definition—

I am challenging the chair, and I just want to clarify with the clerk that I've subbed in as a member.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

We understand that. There's no debate. The question is simply, shall the chair be sustained? It's a recorded vote, yes or no.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 10; nays 1)

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

I believe the matter is closed.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, witnesses, for your patience, and I hope you enjoyed dinner.

This meeting is adjourned.