Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) Committee on Feb. 5th, 2007

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Have they asked you to prepare a number? A total emissions cut? A sectoral cut in emissions?

I'm asking you if anyone from government has come to you and said, for the large final emitters, the big polluters in this country, we want a prepared plan.

[John Moffet]

A plan for—

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

For the number of tonnes per sector that we want reduced.

[John Moffet]

Yes, the government has announced, in its notice of intent that it issued last fall, that it would be commencing immediately to develop regulations that would impose emission targets for the large final emitters. That work is actively under way. It's my understanding that the minister hopes to be able to speak to that issue and intends to appear before the committee.

I can't provide the details of that work—I'm actually not involved directly in it—but I can tell you that the work has been under way since the government issued the notice of intent last fall.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

Thank you, Mr. Moffet.

Mr. Warawa.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I thank each of you for being here this evening and staying until what is projected to be 9 p.m.

There was a question by one of the members regarding the short-, medium-, and long-term targets, starting with the premise that they weren't in Bill C-30. When the Clean Air Act was announced, along with that was an announcement of the notice of intent.

I'd like to ask somebody a question regarding the short-, medium- and long-term targets, but particularly the short-term ones right now. In the time that we have, I'd like to focus on the short-term targets. I'm also going to be asking about comments that have been made regarding “intensity-based” as opposed to “hard cap”. I'm not sure who can answer that.

Starting off with the short-term targets that are being negotiated now and will be announced shortly, how are those being set? Are they arbitrarily set?

Who can answer that?

[John Moffet]

Mr. Warawa, I can reiterate what the notice of intent said, and I can assure you that the actions that the government is undertaking are following the direction set by the notice of intent. The notice of intent indicated that, “The intent is to reach a decision, by spring 2007, on the overall regulatory approach, including proposed short-term targets”.

The notice of intent further indicated:

For GHGs: the Government intends to adopt a target-setting approach based on emissions intensity, one that will yield a better outcome for the Canadian environment than under the plan previously proposed on July 16, 2005....

The work that is under way is involving technical and economic analysis to provide various options for identifying targets for the major industrial sectors. That work is currently being discussed with the minister and with his cabinet colleagues.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

I just want to clarify what you said. You said the targets will be more stringent than those set in July 2005. Did I hear you right?

[John Moffet]

I'm simply quoting from the notice of intent. I'm really not at liberty to provide any details about the regulatory plan beyond what's in the notice of intent. I would respectfully request that any questions on the regulatory plan be directed to the minister.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

So there are targets that are set, short, medium, and long, and those are set through the notice of intent.

[John Moffet]

The broad framework for the targets is explained in the notice of intent. The specific targets will be announced by the minister and would actually be contained in the regulations themselves.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

And these will be done through a regulatory framework as opposed to the voluntary framework that we previously had and presently have in Canada. It will be regulatory.

[John Moffet]

It will be by regulation. That's my understanding.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Who can answer the question on “intensity-based” as opposed to “hard cap”? Which would be more stringent? I've been briefed—I'm not sure how long ago—and I heard the difference with intensity-based. I was quite impressed. I'm looking forward to a response here now, for enlightenment for those who are at this meeting and also because it's being televised.

Who would be able to explain the difference between intensity-based and hard cap? There's a lot of misleading information out there, so who would care to enlighten us?

[John Moffet]

I'm sure my colleagues are getting bored of hearing my voice. On the other hand, maybe they're happy to have me continue.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[John Moffet]

The straight answer is that it depends. Your question was which would be more stringent. One could set an emissions intensity target that is more stringent than a hard cap, or less stringent. It depends on what the target is. An emissions intensity target is set on the basis of emissions intensity. One could ratchet emissions intensity way down really quickly and achieve a more dramatic reduction than a very soft cap. On the other hand, a very strict, hard cap could produce significantly greater reductions than emissions intensity. It depends on the numbers.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Thank you.

Finally, which industrial sector are these targets going to be applicable to?

[John Moffet]

The plan, as outlined in the notice of intent, is to develop regulations addressing emissions of greenhouse gasses and air pollutants from all of the major industrial sector sectors in Canada.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

You still have fifty seconds if you want them.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

No, I think that actually answers my questions. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

Mr. Godfrey.

[John Godfrey, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you very much.

I'm glad you've talked about the notice of intent, Mr. Moffet, because my questions go like this: first, if there were no Bill C-30, is there anything, in the notice of intent to regulate, that could not be regulated using CEPA authority now?

[John Moffet]

There are a few things in the notice of intent that we could not do using CEPA.