Bill C-32 (40th Parliament, 3rd Session) Committee on Feb. 17th, 2011

[David Reckziegel]

As I said earlier, it's not for financial reasons, I would say, in this case. Obviously any loss is not a good loss. We're Canadian distributors. It's important for us that the local Canadian film industry survive and flourish. If future generations are not educated about our films that have come before, they won't have the taste to go and see Canadian films in the future.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

That's an interesting take on this. You're saying that because of these exemptions, there will be a diminishing of Canadian content among our education institutions. Am I correct to say that?

[David Reckziegel]

I believe so, yes.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

They have access to--

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Mr. Simms, we're going to have to move along.

Go ahead, Madame Lavallée.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

First and foremost, I would like to ask you to send us the Ipsos survey results. I didn't see them this morning in the newspapers; I may have missed them; I haven't seen them anywhere. I believe that would be an excellent document and we should review it. I'm officially asking you to send it to the chair, to send the survey as a whole, as complete as possible, to the chair.

[Ted East]

Yes. It was a study that's being released today, so absolutely you will get copies.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you very much.

One of you said you were 100% in favour of Bill C-32. However, you're asking us to make what seem to me to be significant amendments respecting the responsibility of Internet service providers, but also regarding their accountability. You want to make them accountable for what happens on their Internet sites. You're also talking about the system that enables an offender to receive notice after notice without expecting any further significant consequences and where a rights holder whose rights are violated sends a notice to the Internet service provider, which in turn sends it to the person responsible for the site or to someone who it is believed has violated the act. That's what's called the notice and notice system. There's also the graduated response system, which we've seen in France, England and Australia.

In short, you're telling us that you entirely support Bill C-32, but that we have to make two major amendments. These are not minor amendments. If we don't make them, do you believe that Bill C-32 can achieve its purpose of combating piracy?

[Patrick Roy]

I don't believe so. In fact, we are saying that—

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

So you're 90% or 50% in favour of it.

[Patrick Roy]

No, we support the approach, but we're suggesting adjustments to ensure that this act has the desired impact on the public at all levels. We support the approach, but significant changes have to be made to it.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I understand.

Do you want to add something, Ms. Noss?

[Wendy Noss]

Madame Lavallée, I've heard you speak many times about the importance of the objectives of this bill. I may not be popular in this room for saying so, but I think you have a lot more in common in terms of the objectives of this bill than you may think.

It's clear that we have to stop what's happening, and that's taking money from industries that support actors and creatorsand improve local economies. It's the same goal.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Pardon me. There are some problems with the translation this morning. I don't know what's happening, the sound is so bad. I say that kindly.

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

It's not just this morning.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

It's particularly the case today.

Let's get back to business. The Bloc Québécois absolutely wants to eliminate piracy. We believe that Canada and Quebec have to make an effort in this direction and that we have to modernize the act. We are completely with you, but people have told us this is impossible. We've been told that in private meetings. We were told we would never be able to get rid of piracy, even if Canada made all the necessary efforts to do so. What's your response to those people?

We can shut down IsoHunt in Laval or British Columbia, but, tomorrow morning, those people will go to Ireland or another country where the laws aren't as effective as those of Canada or Quebec.

[Patrick Roy]

I believe that everything that can be done must be done.

I'll give you an example. We distribute films in Spain. In that country, there is a certain laxist attitude and, consequently, DVD distribution is non-existent. The measures that were subsequently introduced arrived too late. In other countries, like here, there has been more significant protection in this regard, and that's why this market exists.

I think there are some things that can be done and that we must do them. It's true that there will always be piracy, but it shouldn't represent $1 billion of direct sales lost a year. We absolutely have to reduce that figure and do everything so that people don't feel Canada is a place where you can do that easily. The Canadian public must understand that this is not a legal act and that, by doing it, you're affecting Canadian creators.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. East, what do you have to say about this?

[Ted East]

We have to do something as a nation. Yes, piracy is an international problem, but five of the top ten pirate BitTorrent sites are hosted in Canada. That's a disgrace. I would say that the ball is very much in our court. These two gentlemen have companies in other countries. They travel around the world doing film deals. They get it all the time: “Why should we do business with you? You're a pirate haven.”

That has to stop.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Thank you.

We're going to move to Mr. Braid for five minutes.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you to all of our witnesses for being here this morning.

Ms. Noss, let me start with a question for you, please. It relates to the joint Ipsos-Oxford Economics study that you notified us about this morning. It is certainly a very timely study, one that provides a very compelling case for the importance of modernizing our copyright legislation in this country and for the urgency of getting this bill studied and passed.

Do you know what the genesis of the study was, what triggered it?

[Wendy Noss]

We commissioned the study. It was born of people like you asking us time and time again what the impact is on the economy and on jobs.

I would say one thing. This study is quite different from studies done before it, because it's not looking at the losses to our six member companies, but at the losses to the industry as a whole—consumer spending loss—and then the spinoff impacts after that, in terms of both jobs and GDP. It really is a comprehensive study. It is our best attempt to quantify for you the impact of this problem in Canada.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you for that answer and for making the study happen. It's a particularly helpful piece of information.

You have perhaps touched on this already. You said that this study is more comprehensive than previous studies. I am curious to know whether there have been any similar studies in the past that we can use as a benchmark. In other words, can you demonstrate how the issue of piracy—the impact on our economy, lost revenue, lost jobs—has been changing over time?

Can you comment on that?

[Wendy Noss]

Unfortunately I don't think you can, because this study is so different in its scope and its approach, and in the Ipsos-Oxford Economics methodology, but here are numbers that I think we can't ignore: isoHunt has 40,000,000 peers and 6,000,000 torrents. Those are kinds of numbers that I think speak for themselves, in terms of the kind of impact this has on an industry like ours.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Great.

Changing gears somewhat, we haven't heard a lot this morning about the provisions in the bill with respect to TPMs and digital locks. Could you speak to the importance of the TPM provisions in the bill and the benefits to your businesses and your industry?