Evidence of meeting #15 for Bill C-32 (40th Parliament, 3rd Session) in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was music.
A recording is available from Parliament.
President, Canadian Recording Industry Association
They fire a volley; you fire a volley back. It's like Bleak House. It's like Charles Dickens, only worse.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Right.
The other recommendation you made was on the personal uses for statutory damages. I would say I'm squeamish about statutory damages, because I've seen what they have done in the States. But you had a recommendation, and I haven't heard it before. What is that recommendation?
President, Canadian Recording Industry Association
What the government seems to be concerned about is individuals being dinged for millions of dollars. Well, if that's the concern, it is easily addressed with the current wording, and then you just add in some discretion in the case of personal use by an individual in their basement. The judge could actually look at that.
By the way, that's the difference between Canada and the United States, I believe. I think there's no discretion down there. We want our judges to have discretion.
When I first made the point about this $5,000 cap not being effective, I was ridiculed about this on some people's blogs: “You know, $5,000 sure sounds like a lot to me.” Then one guy, who's been talked about at this committee before, with six teraflops...every movie ever made, for his own purposes, for non-commercial purposes, is making them available to the world. He went on somebody's blog and said that, actually, $5,000 sounds like a deal to me; it might save my bacon. That was his comment.
President, Canadian Recording Industry Association
We can do it. We can do it.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gord Brown
Mr. Angus, you're well over time.
We're going to move on to Mr. Lake for seven minutes.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all the witnesses for coming today. This has been a very enlightening bit of testimony.
I want to focus, Ms. McKennitt, if I could, on some of what you said. I thought you articulated very well the importance of passing this bill and maybe not necessarily waiting until every single thing that everybody wants is in it, because we're better off if we pass the bill than we are without the bill. Is that accurate?
President, Quinlan Road Limited
That's exactly the sentiment.
Speaking as someone who has a private enterprise and who is not just a widget but also the owner and manager of a little company, sometimes you have to make tough decisions. You have to say, “I'm not going to win everything this time, but I need to move this train out of the station by 6 o'clock. If I do not, the train will not go, and all will be a disaster.”
I just cannot underline enough how important it is that we get most of this done and dusted, such that it can be modified as time goes on.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
Mr. Dexter, I think, spoke to some technical changes that might happen. This committee process is an important part of the legislative process, because we're able, through expert testimony from witnesses, to identify places where tweaks can be made to strengthen legislation. It's a very important part of the process.
I'll come back to the levy issue. Obviously there's a legitimate debate between parties or political people about the benefits or non-benefits of a levy, which again is not part of this particular bill. Should we wait until we resolve the debate on a levy before we pass this legislation?
President, MapleMusic
From my perspective on the street, on the ground, and running a business, I didn't even think the levy was in the legislation or in the bill, so I don't know how it has hijacked what we're talking about. I think we need to separate the two and move forward with the bill, and we can deal with the levy after. I think everyone feels, as I said, that as a small business owner you never want to take money off the table, but at the same time you have to direct your energies to where you're going to get the most opportunity and bang for your buck, and that's to the bill right now. We can talk about the levy later.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
So speaking to what is actually in the bill, and again coming back to Ms. McKennitt, what within this legislation is the most important for you as an artist and as a business person?
President, Quinlan Road Limited
I think it's the unequivocal protection for the creator's work. The default position should be to the creator. That really is the main principle, as I said in my opening remarks.
President, MapleMusic
I work with hundreds and hundreds of independent artists, and they just want a choice. People confuse giving it away for free with promotion; with this or that; with touring. They just want a choice about what happens with their stuff. Some of them might want to give away to build their touring business; some of them might want to charge two cents; some of them might want to charge ten cents. But without legislation to protect that choice, there's no motivation to continue to make the music and to make better music and to enrich our lives.
That, for us, really comes down to the protections and the choice of what they do with their material.
President, Quinlan Road Limited
And with how much of it can be accomplished in permissions.
As I say, we issue hundreds of permissions a year--some of them are people's dances; some of them are churches; some of them are movies. It's not complex; it's actually courteous.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
For you as an artist, I imagine that the advent of new technology and the Internet and the availability of those tools to distribute your works and make your works available.... They're tremendous tools for you, right? You want to be able to take advantage of those. And if we pass this legislation, you can take advantage of those and not worry that your work is going to be distributed for free to anybody who wants it.
President, Canadian Recording Industry Association
[Inaudible--Editor]...pass legislation with amendments such as we've been hearing about. A lot of them are very sensible that are coming from this side of the floor, and they're coming from us.
I think the key here is to just start talking about what a package would look like. It's very frustrating to us to see it go on and on, when in fact there's something out there; there has to be a compromise.
Most of what we're talking about here, and what I keep hearing from this other side--there seems to be a disconnect. The government is saying the same sort of thing: we want to get rid of wealth destroyers. But as I think Mr. Dexter was pointing out, the language doesn't do that.
Okay, then, let's just fix up the language. It's not requiring the government to make massive policy changes or to step back from the precipice; it's actually just asking the government to make the words match with the actions and the intent.
I think that should be easy enough.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
Based on my experience here, I wouldn't get too caught up in some of the political debate as it relates to issues, because we're going to get advice and we're going to, as a committee, work our way through this. What I would be concerned about, if I were sitting at your end of the table, is the time that it's taking to get through hearing all of the different ideas and getting those on the table. There's talk of a potential election. We don't know what's going to happen. In a minority Parliament, it can happen at any time.
How critical is it for us to get this legislation passed through this Parliament?
As an Individual
It's critical. It's time now. It was time ten years ago that you did something with this. Come to an agreement. You're smart people; figure it out, and get something that's going to work for us. We're desperate, for real.
President, Quinlan Road Limited
I would say that it's time for consensus-building. We all have to be mature adults and accept that it's not going to be perfect. There are allowances in the system to continue to tweak and fine-tune things. But there must be a phase of consensus-building to move this along to where we are properly protected, because the industry is in absolute shambles.