Bill C-32 (40th Parliament, 3rd Session) Committee on Feb. 1st, 2011

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here this afternoon.

I'm certainly a big fan of the products your industry and your organization produce. Congratulations on your success.

How many countries around the world is Degrassi sold to?

[John Barrack]

I believe it's 127.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

One of the things Bill C-32 certainly endeavours to do is to bring Canada's copyright laws in line with the international context, in line with our international partners.

When you're selling Canadian products around the world, why is that important to your industry?

[John Barrack]

The revenue derived from those sales is an integral part of the financing of those shows. In other words, those international sales are often pre-sold ahead of production, and they create the revenue that allows production to take place.

Without those revenues, you're either going to have no Canadian production or a reduced quality of Canadian production. There will be a gap in the financing.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Do you concur with the fact that Bill C-32 endeavours to bring us in line internationally, and is that important to your industry?

[John Barrack]

Yes. It is very important.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Could you highlight, generally speaking, what aspects of the bill you think are integral to the bill and, as the committee process unfolds, need to be maintained?

[John Barrack]

If I might, and I'll let Reynolds comment with more specificity, I think that's why we set out the five priorities in our oral presentation. Those really are the key areas if we're going to be successful.

I think the bill goes a long way in addressing these. In some respects, it needs to be strengthened. Through careful study, we're going to find what we need to have to keep our businesses operating.

[Reynolds Mastin]

I entirely agree with that, John. I think the five priorities you see articulated here are the ones we're primarily concerned about and that we need to see reflected in whatever the final bill looks like.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

You mentioned TPMs. Are TPMs used across the board in your industry?

[Reynolds Mastin]

They are. But what's very interesting, and I think it's important to underscore this, is that for certain business models and forms of content distribution for membership, they're absolutely integral and essential. There are other circumstances when our members won't use TPMs, particularly when they're trying to promote a show and they want to use different vehicles of content distribution to do that.

What's critical for our membership is that we have the choice to use them or not. That's what Bill C-32 enables our members to do.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

When you were discussing TPMs you said that at a certain point consumers have the ability or the opportunity to sort of push back on them. Could you elaborate on that and provide an example of how and when that occurs?

[Reynolds Mastin]

Sure. I think it's fairly straightforward. The going in proposition for any independent producer or content creator is that we want to get our content into the hands of as many consumers as humanly possible. When we are looking at how we design TPMs and when and if we use them, the number one thing we are mindful of is this: how are we going to ensure that we get our content into the hands of as many consumers as possible?

Clearly, when we misjudge how best to do that.... There is such a gargantuan range of content available to consumers today, both here in Canada and around the world, that when our members don't use the right mechanism and/or the right TPM in this particular context, consumers simply won't buy their content. It's as simple as that. We have to compete in a global marketplace where there are a gazillion choices available to consumers.

[John Barrack]

I think the point that really needs to be emphasized is that it's about having that producer of content have the ability to make that choice, not have that choice expropriated from them.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Okay.

[John Barrack]

There are times when you want to send your content far and wide to create interest, and then there are times when you want to monetize that content once that interest has been created.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Okay. The bill gives producers the flexibility to decide if so and how.

[John Barrack]

Yes.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Okay, great.

Is piracy a problem in your industry?

[John Barrack]

Yes.

[Reynolds Mastin]

It absolutely is, yes. As difficult to quantify as it may be, there's no question about that.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Okay. That was going to be my next question. Have you attempted to quantify what piracy costs?

[John Barrack]

Again, it's very difficult to do. What we know is that it's largely anecdotal. You'll see copies of popular movies like Bon Cop, Bad Cop show up in these large flea markets where they're clearly pirated copies and they're selling.

How do we quantify that? Again, it's difficult, quite bluntly, for the Canadian industry to fund the kind of study that would be necessary to truly quantify that. I'm sorry that we haven't been able to do that. It's really very difficult to do in any meaningful way.

[Reynolds Mastin]

Also on that point, that's why it's so critically important that we get the statutory damages part of the bill right, for that very reason: how difficult it in fact is, in any given circumstance, to quantify the damages that have been sustained by a producer or any content creator in the case of an infringement.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

What aspects of the bill attempt to address this serious issue of piracy, in your mind, that are important?