Canada-China Relations Committee on Feb. 4th, 2020

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank our witnesses for joining us today, especially in this busy context.

I want to start out with a very simple question. Do members have an exclusive line to discuss consular cases with Global Affairs Canada?

[Heather Jeffrey]

In the cases of members of Parliament, we do work directly in some cases. When families provide consent for members of Parliament to act on their behalf, we'll engage to the extent that families allow.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Okay, but is there a direct line for members or is Global Affairs Canada in general called?

[Brian Szwarc, Director General, Consular Operations, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

If I may answer that, please, there is a process by which members can direct their inquiries to the office of the minister. They can raise those issues on behalf of their constituents. We have a very well-working process for those requests to be directed to—

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

So the minister's cabinet is involved?

[Brian Szwarc]

Yes, exactly.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you.

I have a second question. In light of the consular cases you have brought to our attention, would you say that China has violated the Canada-China Consular Agreement?

[Heather Jeffrey]

The agreement that we have bilaterally between Canada and China, as I mentioned, is 20 years old. It was put in place to establish a minimum threshold for access in particular cases of dual nationality. Prior to that, there had been extreme challenges.

It lays out, I would say, what we consider to be the minimum standards, and we're always advocating to go beyond them.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

You are telling us that you were refused consular access to a Canadian citizen. Is that not a violation of the agreement between the two countries?

[Heather Jeffrey]

Under the agreement, China has agreed to provide us with access only to those Canadian citizens who entered China on a Canadian travel document. If you are a dual national of China and entered on a Chinese document, under the agreement, China has said that they will not provide us access.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Was that provision on dual nationality part of the agreement between the two countries?

[Heather Jeffrey]

Our position as the Government of Canada is that all Canadian citizens have the right to consular access under the Vienna Convention, and we continue to advocate for that at every opportunity. There are many countries in the world that do not accept that position, but we continue to advocate despite that.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Okay, but was that provision, more specifically, part of the agreement between the two countries?

[Heather Jeffrey]

The agreement was signed in part to respond to the fact that the Government of China was refusing to recognize consular access for any dual-national Canadians in China. It allowed us to make some progress in terms of accessing dual-national Canadian-Chinese citizens who entered China on Canadian travel documents.

We would obviously prefer, and we continue to advocate as a position of the Government of Canada, that we have access to all Canadians.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Okay.

Generally speaking, how many consular visits have Mr. Kovrig and Mr. Spavor received? How long were those visits on average? In what kind of climate or conditions would you say those visits took place? What have you noted in terms of the detention conditions of those two Canadians?

[Heather Jeffrey]

As I'm sure the committee can appreciate, behind every one of these consular cases are the personal situations of Canadians in distress. To protect their privacy, and to protect the privacy of their families, we're not going to comment on the specific details of their conditions or their cases.

We continue to visit them, and we have had monthly access to both Mr. Kovrig and Mr. Spavor. Unfortunately, for reasons of the Privacy Act, and to protect the families and those individuals and the progression of their cases, I'm not going to comment on their personal situations.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Okay, but would you say that you have adequate access?

[Heather Jeffrey]

I would say that we are continuing to advocate for greater consular access to Mr. Kovrig and Mr. Spavor and for their access to their families and to additional supports. We advocate for their well-being with local authorities, and we are continuing to find every possible way to support them in what are very difficult circumstances.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Okay.

Here is a very simple question. If this committee's members potentially decided to travel to China for a visit, would you foresee any consular difficulties for them? Would that kind of a visit add value to this committee's conclusions regarding future relations between China and Canada?

[Heather Jeffrey]

Mr. Chair, the advice that we offer to all Canadians is our travel advice for China. At the current time, our travel advice is at level three, which is to avoid all non-essential travel to China.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

That visit would happen later.

[Heather Jeffrey]

We'll be continually reassessing the situation, and I'm sure we would be happy to engage with the committee in terms of the travel advice in the moment that you're considering.

In terms of the work of the committee and its mandate, I will respectfully leave that up to the chair and the members, but we remain at your service to answer questions and to support your work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Have you discussed the issue of visas? It may be useful for the committee members to know more about that. Does the witness think it would be difficult or not?

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

I think this is a very interesting complementary question, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Do you want to address that just for a second? I'm sorry to interrupt.