Canada-China Relations Committee on Feb. 4th, 2020

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for the work you do. Obviously a lot of resources are given to your department and, like all of us, when you give someone resources, you expect people to use them wisely.

I would like to make a quick statement, especially for new members of Parliament, on embassies and consulates.

When members of Parliament could no longer contact the embassies and consulates directly on behalf of their constituents for routine matters—this occurred right after the Liberals took office in 2015—I have to say, from my own experience as a constituency worker, that it complicated things. It also insulates those consulates from the general public, as does, I believe, the Privacy Act. I believe it gives too much insulation for the government.

I would like to see a little more transparency from your department when it comes to these things, because ultimately all our salaries are paid for by the public, and it shouldn't take a crisis for people to start getting basic information specifically.

I'm going to be focusing largely on those matters today, Mr. Chair.

There are no publicly available statistics on the number of Canadians in China and the number of consular cases, so could you start by saying how many Canadians are currently in mainland China and in Hong Kong? Also, how do those figures compare to previous years?

[Heather Jeffrey]

Mr. Chair, I can respond to that in part. The Government of Canada does not track inside China the presence of Canadians. We don't track the travel of Canadians. This is an area where our figures—not just for China, but for the rest of the world—are not complete. We don't have a firm estimate about how many Canadians might be in China at any given point in time.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Again, from a public interest standpoint, this insulates the government, because we effectively don't know if the government is resourcing our consulates in the correct regions that face the biggest challenges. I would simply say that a little more transparency needs to happen there.

Let's go to things that you can talk about. How many Canadian consular cases are active in China right now?

[Heather Jeffrey]

In 2019, there were 375 new consular cases in China.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

How many were routine or administrative in nature? How many would be considered more complex?

[Heather Jeffrey]

If I look at the overall number of cases the way we track them, there were 26,500 cases in 2019 in China: 4,500 of those were citizenship requests; 20,000 were passport-related; and there were 375 of what we term “consular cases”, which are more complex. Of those, 123 were cases of detention.

These are figures for greater China, so that includes Hong Kong and Taiwan. The arrest and detention cases are primarily related to drug-related crimes and to fraud. We had 135 cases of deaths abroad; 48 requests for well-being and whereabouts, with people looking for their family members; 36 requests for medical assistance; and 12 family-related children's cases.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Obviously there is a fair bit of concern for Canadians who are detained abroad, particularly in China. Can you give us a total number? Again, I believe Mr. Bergeron asked a good question. I do think we should have a general number of how many Canadians are detained.

[Heather Jeffrey]

Do you mean globally?

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

In China.

[Heather Jeffrey]

Currently, we have 123 Canadians who are detained in greater China. That includes China, Hong Kong and Taiwan.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

How many have happened in the past year?

[Heather Jeffrey]

I'm sorry. I'll have to—

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Would you mind maybe tabling it for the past few years, just so we can understand that better, just to see if there's an uptick? I think it's important to know.

For those Canadians, how are they able to access needed consular services? You explained it a little: that if anyone asks, then you have a duty to it.... That's not legislated, is it?

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

You have 35 seconds.

[Heather Jeffrey]

Consular assistance in Canada is granted under the royal prerogative, and our consular policy is to offer consular service to all Canadians under the consular charter. We are typically notified by host governments of detention cases. If we are notified of them by other sources, we will proactively contact detention centres and local authorities and reach out.

Not in all cases in all jurisdictions are local authorities as assiduous in informing us as we would like, so we use all possible means. People don't have to reach out to us. We're actively looking for them in most cases.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Mr. Dubourg, go ahead.

[Emmanuel Dubourg, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

It is now my turn to greet you and to thank you for joining us.

I would like to come back to the cases of Mr. Kovrig and Mr. Spavor. I hope that you will be able to answer this question.

You said that consular representatives are allowed to visit those two prisoners once a month. I would like to know something if the law allows you to answer. Since their arrest, have those men's families been able to get in touch with them, either by telephone or by visiting?

[Heather Jeffrey]

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair, but, with respect, due to the Privacy Act and the wishes of the families, I'm not going to comment on the particular circumstances of their cases and their interactions. I'm sorry.

[Emmanuel Dubourg, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Okay, thank you.

I have other questions. You just told my colleague that 123 Canadians are currently under arrest, be it in China or in Hong Kong. We know that, last year, highly virulent protests took place in Hong Kong, more specifically. Were any Canadians arrested during those protests? If so, how many?

[Heather Jeffrey]

We did have reports of a number of Canadians who were detained related to those demonstrations. However, to my knowledge, all have now been released, and we have no Canadians currently detained.

[Emmanuel Dubourg, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Okay. I know that I don't have much time left.

When the risk level in a country is increased, as is currently the case in China, are you consulted? What is the procedure?

[Heather Jeffrey]

In deciding to raise the level of travel advice, we take input from a wide variety of sources. We look at the local circumstances on the ground, the reports of the mission, the consular caseload and trends that we see. We also consult with other partners who have different information on what's happening in the region, and we use the criteria for the different levels to apply the levels of risk.

It's evaluated on a 24-7 basis. Updates are made throughout the night. For example, in cases of natural disaster or sudden emergencies, it's very important that Canadians have that information as quickly as possible, so we are continually reviewing the travel advice for all countries. We look at specific regions within the country so we can target advice in areas of a country that might be, for example, at a higher level of risk than others.

[Emmanuel Dubourg, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Okay.

My last question is about the coronavirus. We know that Canadians will be brought back home quickly. It seems that a second airplane is planned.

If Canadians are in China but not in Wuhan, will they also be brought home? Are they on a list? If those people have contacted consular representatives, will they be part of the upcoming departures?

[Heather Jeffrey]

Our policy is to target our assistance to the needs of Canadians. In cases where there are commercial options to depart from a particular area, those provide the most expedient and easiest way to depart. Our evacuation support is restricted only to those cases in which Canadians really have no other options for leaving a particular area.

Each circumstance is different. In the case of Wuhan, obviously, we have a large concentration of Canadians who have made their needs known, and we're responding to those. There continues to be regular commercial traffic to and from the rest of China, and we will be monitoring the needs of Canadians as the situation progresses.