Canada-China Relations Committee on Feb. 25th, 2021

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Well—

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

There's been no suggestion of espionage or any concern raised. It was only the fact that a Chinese official entity was involved in this company. We sought and received assurances from IRCC that, in fact, the data that was used in that system was secure.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

We've heard that several times. Is your government totally satisfied with this arrangement and with its continuing in perpetuity?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Is that a question, Mr. Harris?

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Yes. Is that the case?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I'm satisfied that IRCC has not identified any concerns. They have provided strong assurances that Canadian data and Canadian interests are well protected in the system they have in place.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Minister, you raised another question, about fentanyl. Obviously, Canadians are very concerned about the huge number of opioid overdose deaths in this country, particularly in the last year; 75% of opioid deaths are attributed to fentanyl.

In 2012, the previous government laid off over a thousand Canada Border Services agents in some money-saving thing called DRAP. They haven't been replaced, and yet you say that there have been 335 seizures of fentanyl—42 kilograms of it—but we're still having these huge numbers of deaths associated with fentanyl.

Do you really have enough border security and ability to interdict the incoming fentanyl that's causing all these deaths?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

There are a couple of things to say in response, Mr. Harris. We know that many of the drugs and the precursor chemicals used in their manufacture are imported into this country and that the source of those is often Southeast Asia and quite often China. I've already indicated that.

We are doing a great deal of work. I have the president of CBSA also online. I can talk about the work we've been doing over the past five years to restore the staffing and budget cuts that were imposed by the previous government under the deficit reduction action plan that they put in place.

I can also talk to you, if we get more time or at another time, about the excellent work that's going on, including our conversations just this week with the United States about re-establishing the cross-border crime forum, which enables strong collaboration between Canada and its closest ally and partner, the United States, in dealing with these issues, particularly the importation of opioid drugs.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

It's been suggested that perhaps 150 or 160 border guards have been added, instead of the thousand who had been lost.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

If the chair allows us time, I would invite the president of CBSA to talk about some of the excellent work he's been doing to respond to that.

I'm getting the “time out” signal. I apologize for that. Mr. Harris, I'll happily follow up with you, together with the CBSA president, because the question is a good one.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you, Mr. Harris.

Now we'll go to the second round.

Welcome to the committee, Mrs. Stubbs. You have five minutes.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Thanks, Chair. It's nice to see you. Hello, everyone.

Minister, the Chinese communist regime engages in cyber warfare against Canada and is harassing Canadian citizens. CSIS says it's “silencing dissent, pressuring political opponents and instilling a general fear of state power no matter where a person is”. In October, the U.S. charged eight people for this operation, and in November the RCMP said they were aware of China's operations in Canada but had not laid any charges.

To date, can you tell us how many charges or arrests have been made in Canada in relation to Operation Fox Hunt?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

To give you an accurate response to that question, I'll invite both the commissioner of the RCMP and perhaps, most pertinently, the director of CSIS to respond.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

I think they can address that later. I'd suggest it's something Canadians would really want you to know.

I have a question about this $4.8-million partnership, tax dollars, between NSERC and Huawei, which you keep referring to as a company but which is of course an arm of China's communist regime.

The Prime Minister said that this partnership was based on “expert recommendations from...top security analysts”, but of course Canada's own security analysts advise against allowing Communist Party entities to get Canadian intellectual research. In fact, researchers say that what China's communist regime is looking for is “help from Canada in artificial intelligence, biotechnology...quantum computing, all areas that can help their military”.

Can you tell us who advised the Prime Minister that it's okay to partner with Huawei? Also, as the public safety minister, were you aware of this partnership that undermines Canada's public and national security? If not, why are decisions using public funds that affect public safety kept from you?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I want to assure you that they're not, of course. The Government of Canada is well aware of attempts by foreign state actors, and in particular the People's Republic of China, to target cutting-edge Canadian research and development efforts. We track very carefully these allegations. There is a process whereby that intelligence is brought forward for review, and there are a number of remedies available to us in law.

I also want to point out that our departments are very actively engaging with universities, federal labs and private companies through the safeguarding science initiative, and we're working with Canadian research and proprietary information to ensure that it remains safe. We lead with the support and collaboration of 10 federal departments and agencies in this initiative. Public Safety has a leadership role, but it's a whole-of-government effort to protect Canadian interests and Canadian intellectual property.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Thanks.

On this issue, you'll know that in September, the U.S. expelled over a thousand “high-risk graduate students and research scholars” from the universities to counter “a wide-ranging and heavily resourced campaign to acquire sensitive United States technologies and intellectual property...to bolster the modernization and capability of its military”.

In 2018, as you probably know, the Australian Strategic Policy Institute said that three Canadian universities made the top 10 for publishing papers co-authored by People's Liberation Army scientists.

Can you just tell us, then, since obviously this is urgent, how many foreign national students studying in Canada are linked to China's People's Liberation Army?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

As one might anticipate, I'm not going to answer specific questions about any intelligence matter, any investigation ongoing or complete, in this public forum.

I'll just provide you with assurances that my officials are here—

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

I'm not asking about investigations.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

—but I'm sure they'll be very careful about what is disclosed in this forum to you as well.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Oh, I'm sure. I'm quite confident that they would be careful.

I guess on that note, then, in general—not about any specific investigations—do you even know how many foreign students have been ejected from Canada for infiltration of educational research institutions and intellectual property theft?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I don't have that information, but we'll certainly get it and collect it for you. I don't want to misrepresent anything in this committee, so we'll make sure we have accurate information in response.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Okay.

In 2017, there were 84 co-publications between Canadian and Chinese researchers with military technologies. Those are notable because they resulted in publications.

The former head of CSIS recommends that the government restrict foreign students from accessing certain whole areas of research in order to protect Canada's interests. As public safety minister, can you tell us exactly what is being done to protect highly sensitive areas of research in Canada from foreign infiltration and theft?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Yes. For that answer, I would refer you to the 12-page document I sent to you and all other parliamentarians that outlines, in quite a lot of detail, all the work we are doing to mitigate the risk and concerns around foreign interference in our academic institutions, our industries and in every aspect of our society. I think it's very clearly and comprehensively articulated there, and I would point you to it—

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you very much. I'm sorry for interrupting. Those five minutes are up.

Now we'll go on to Mr. Fragiskatos, for five minutes, please.