Canada-China Relations Committee on April 12th, 2021

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

We're talking about our presence in the Arctic. As we know, we don't have polar icebreakers. I know this comes under another department but, as Minister of National Defence, are you pressuring your government to have one? I imagine we're currently relying on our American colleagues. Actually, the Chinese are in the process of building some. They already have medium icebreakers and are building more.

Are you pushing to have Diefenbaker as soon as possible?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, as we stated earlier on, this is a whole-of-government approach. In fact, we'll work together to make sure we have all the right support. For example, on the defence side alone and as the member knows from the time when he was a critic for defence, when it comes to our Arctic offshore patrol ships, we actually had the Harry DeWolf operating up in the north, conducting its trial.

We do have a presence there. We have now put up additional satellites so that we have a greater reconnaissance and outlook up there. We're doing some really cutting-edge research up in the north as well.

Plus, when it comes to the Coast Guard, we have made significant investments and we will be doing more to make sure we not only have the right presence, but that we provide the right support.

However, we need to make sure we have that layered approach. It's extremely vital, Mr. Chair. It's probably the most important piece. The investments we're making into the future right now are about aligning our space capabilities all the way down to under the water and into a command and [Inaudible—Editor] that will work with NORAD modernization.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you. As you know, the time we have is short, and we want to get this done quickly.

With regard to telecommunications, there is a dispute with Huawei. Everyone is aware of the 5G issue and other issues with the company.

Three years ago, we were told—this was at the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security, if I'm not mistaken—that a telecommunications network would be installed by Huawei in Canada's north and that the company's objective was to work with indigenous peoples to provide telecommunications services. But we know very well that this was a way for China to establish itself there.

Can you tell me if if Huawei has or is the process of establishing a telecommunications network? I'm not talking about 5G here, but about Huawei's telecommunications.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

First of all, I can't provide any details about exactly what the member is talking about in the north. I can say that when it comes to CSE and the work they do, the current infrastructure we have in place is one of the best in the Five Eyes because of the decisions our government—and previous governments—have made in this realm. This has allowed us to have a good system as we work with telecommunications companies.

Moving forward, we need to make sure that in the 5G world it is just as robust, if not better. Moving forward, this is not just about looking at one particular company. We need to be mindful that we're looking extremely broadly because we're making decisions for way into the future. We want to make sure we have the right one, just like we did with 4G technology.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you.

China received observer status on the Arctic Council in 2013. Will Canada oppose China's request for a higher status on the Arctic Council?

Since China obtained observer status, it has increased its presence here.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, obviously I can't talk about what discussions may occur. One thing I can assure you when it comes to our government—especially from defence—is that we will be extremely mindful when it comes to our Arctic sovereignty. It's something we take very seriously. We'll be aggressively making sure we send a message. One message that we [Technical difficulty—Editor] is that we actually have increased our CADI zone when it comes to the north, which we monitor with NORAD.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you very much, Mr. Paul-Hus.

Madam Zann, you have five minutes, please.

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you very much.

I'd like to say thank you and welcome to the minister. Shukriya ji.

Minister, as we know, climate change is real. In fact, it's a real danger in the world. Canada is recognized as a strong ally globally in terms of disaster response and humanitarian assistance. In that regard, as an Australian-born Canadian, I would very much like to thank you for your direction to send help to Australia last year during the terrible, disastrous wildfires. Thank you so much from the bottom of my heart for that.

Can you please tell us about the work of the disaster assistance response team and their operations on deployments around the world?

Thank you.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Thank you very much. I'm happy to talk about DART and all the work we have been doing in the Asia-Pacific and Indo-Pacific region. Climate impacts that region, and nations there know this extremely well. When they see sea levels rising, not just their livelihoods but their entire existence is at stake.

Back in 2015 we increased our presence in the Pacific. Having a greater presence there with the Canadian Armed Forces, especially our navy, gave greater confidence to those nations that we would be there for them. DART therefore plays a very important role when it comes to disasters. We do an analysis of when the team needs to be sent. It has to be requested. Then, when it is sent, it provides the necessary humanitarian support [Technical difficulty—Editor] great work. This is one area we have been trying to expand with our colleagues, especially working with Japan and South Korea in the region. We're looking at how we can partner up with other nations, especially Australia, and how we can work together to provide greater support [Technical difficulty—Editor]. Sometimes it's about airlift, and we've done that in other places.

Also, let's not forget that we have the heavy urban search and rescue teams that our government restarted funding for. These teams are designed to respond to disasters.

We're looking at various options for how we can provide greater support. Through those discussions, we'll have a better idea, but this is one area that we are paying very close attention to.

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you very much. My constituents will be glad to hear that, because in Cumberland—Colchester there is a threat of rising sea levels with the Chignecto Isthmus, which is surrounded by water on both sides. Nova Scotia does not want to become an island.

Minister, Canada is involved with our allies on a number of multilateral operations, and with the current environment, that allied work—solidarity, if you will—has proven to be really essential. Could you please expand a bit more on our efforts with our allies to maintain peace and security in the Indo-Pacific region?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

As I stated earlier, for some time, we have been working with our allies, but early on, when I went to the Shangri-La Dialogue in Singapore, it was noted that we did not have consistent engagement. This meant that when we showed up, we weren't taken seriously.

After my first meetings there, I committed that Canada will have a consistent engagement in the Pacific, and that's exactly what we have done. You've seen the tremendous work. We're part of Operation Neon, for monitoring sanctions against North Korea. We conduct exercises together with other militaries. This shows how we can respond to nations when they put up their hand at a time of need during disasters. We provide capacity-building training for many nations. Many nations in the Asia-Pacific region are part of our military training co-operation program. They come to Canada and we provide additional language training.

These are the relationships that are currently being built. [Technical difficulty—Editor] not only enhancing those relationships, but developing other ones as well.

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

At some point after the pandemic, we'd like to welcome you to Pugwash, Nova Scotia, which is well known around the world for peace and for bringing people together to discuss how we can move world peace further along and work together multilaterally with all countries.

Thank you very much, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Since I have 15 seconds, I'll tell you that Cyrus Eaton, who started the Pugwash thinkers' conferences, was once asked, “Where is Pugwash?” He said, “Well, that's easy. It's halfway between Shinimicas and Tatamagouche.”

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

He was right.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you very much, Ms. Zann.

Mr. Bergeron, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

I'll try to be brief, Mr. Chair.

To begin, I'm going to come back to Mr. Bezan's question about what led the Department of National Defence to agree to a joint exercise with the People's Republic of China troops on Canadian soil.

Then, based on what you were told, Mr. Minister, why did the Department of Foreign Affairs want to continue with this exercise?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

First of all, I want to make it very clear, Mr. Chair, that it wasn't the Minister of Foreign Affairs. We never actually had any discussion about this. I can't talk about whatever internal discussions might have happened at the lower levels of Global Affairs, but one thing I can tell you when it came to defence and this exercise is that I wasn't aware that it was actually taking place. It was based on the agreements that were done, as I stated, and signed by the previous government. That work was continuing.

Obviously, after our two Michaels were arbitrarily detained, I gave direction that we were not to continue with any type of further relationship. That's exactly what we have right now.

When it comes to the relationship with China, we work very closely with our allies in how we make decisions based on the work. Originally it was about humanitarian and disaster response, on which we could work together. [Technical difficulty—Editor] made at the exercise that we conduct at RIMPAC. It's one of the largest naval exercises, and China would not be invited to that.

We work very closely with our Five Eyes partners on what types of relationships we build, because ultimately it's only through multilateralism that you're able to have the biggest impact.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

How much time do I have left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

You have 35 seconds left.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Mr. Minister, I'm sure you won't have time to answer, but I was wondering and I was worried about how we could ensure that the People's Republic of China is disciplined, if I can put it that way, in its space activities. There have been a number of incidents—I don't have time to go through them—that suggest to me that there's very little concern on the Chinese side about the impact these activities can have in space.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bergeron.

Now we'll continue, with Mr. Harris, for two minutes and 30 seconds.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Chair.

I'll repeat my question of the last time, Minister.

What capabilities does Canada have in potential counterattack or defensive response to a hybrid-style aggression involving a cyber-attack on Canadian infrastructure or communications?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, we have a number of capabilities. Obviously there are some capabilities we do not discuss in public. I'll hand it off to Shelly in a second here to discuss what we can talk about, but what I will say is that the authorities we have put into place allow the Communications Security Establishment to prevent attacks.

If you remember—

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I understand you have the authority, but capability is the concern, sir, because we understand that other countries have the capability of putting these kinds of attacks in place.

The question is, does Canada have an ability to respond to these attacks, or do we just simply have a defensive posture?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

No, we have the ability to do offensive cyber-action as well. It's within the authorities that have been authorized under the CSE act. When it comes to the defensive side, sending a very strong deterrent is equally important. When we can detect a cyber-attack that is coming and have the ability to shut it down before it comes, that's equally important. We didn't have that authority before. The reason I mention this is so that these authorities that we have in place can be understood, not only by all parliamentarians but also by future governments as well.

We had tremendous capability before, but the cyber-attack that we had with the NRC, because we did not have key authorities.... We weren't able to respond with the capabilities because we didn't have those authorities. That's why the authorities are very important as we discuss this.

Shelly, can you add anything further to that, please?