Canada-China Relations Committee on April 12th, 2021

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Major-General.

I'd now like to turn to Ms. Bruce, from the Communications Security Establishment, the CSE.

During his testimony, the minister spoke several times about amendments to the act. He was talking about Bill C-59, which I worked on when I was on the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security. Offensive external response capabilities were assigned. We also identified an issue that wasn't necessarily addressed by the provisions of Bill C-59, which was strongly siloed operations. We currently have with us representatives from the Canadian Armed Forces, CSE, and the Canadian Centre for Cybersecurity. There are often communication problems between these organizations.

Has this situation improved? Can you say that there is currently close co-operation between the military and civilians in Canada?

[Shelly Bruce]

I can assure you that we are working very closely with the military. In the C-59 legislation, there was a new part of our assistance mandate that opened up our capabilities and allowed us to use them in concert with the CAF's and the DND's authorities. This is a new place where we can come together and work more effectively together.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Bruce.

My last question is about the threat assessment report on Huawei and 5G.

When was the report submitted to the government, Ms. Bruce?

[Shelly Bruce]

The 5G review is under way at this time, and the government is considering analysis that has been provided by a number of departments.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you very much, Mr. Paul-Hus.

We will now continue with Mr. Dubourg for five minutes.

[Emmanuel Dubourg, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Since this is my first comment this evening, I would like to acknowledge all the witnesses and thank them for joining us. I have met and talked to several of them on other occasions.

My first question is for Ms. Bruce, from the Communications Security Establishment.

Given the COVID-19 situation, could you tell me which key issues CSE is currently working on? I know that, in keeping with your strategies on what is secret or top secret, you may not be able to tell us everything, but I would like to know what issues you are currently working on.

[Shelly Bruce]

Thank you for your question.

Mr. Chair, CSE is really very attentive to the fact that more and more Canadians are online—not just Canadian citizens, but also businesses, students and the academic sector. We are taking very strong actions to make sure we can help to educate and keep that increased threat surface more secure for Canadians.

We've been detecting phishing campaigns that have been used by non-state actors that are aiming to defraud Canadians, or to steal their information and play on their anxieties. We've put in place a number of activities to help reduce the risk.

For example, when we identify sites that are purporting to be Government of Canada authoritative sources, we work with the private sector to take those sites offline and reduce the risks of Canadians coming into contact with disinformation.

We have also been working with different partners in the government to find ways to help eliminate the idea that their accounts can be spoofed. We are providing our threat feeds to other private sector organizations to allow them to build apps that Canadians can download.

We're also working extremely closely with the health sector. We have provided to them a great number of indicators of compromise and advice and guidance that can help them withstand and be more resilient in the face of the kinds of attacks we're seeing, like ransomware, directed at organizations that simply can't afford to go offline for any length of time.

[Emmanuel Dubourg, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Thank you very much.

In terms of the Canada-China relations, have your contacts with the Five Eyes intensified or have they remained at the same level?

[Shelly Bruce]

Again, thank you for your question.

Mr. Chair, we have a very close working relationship with the Five Eyes, as was described by the minister, on both the foreign intelligence and cybersecurity sides.

We have a very strong rapport and exchange of information on all levels of activity, from research and development all the way through to intelligence and technical exchanges. I would say the relationship is as strong as it has ever been.

We're actually celebrating our 75th anniversary this year. Some of those relationships date back all the way to the beginning of our existence. It's a long history and a very solid relationship.

[Emmanuel Dubourg, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Thank you.

I have a very quick question for Mr. Jones, since he is an expert in cyber attacks.

In the last year, have any of the cyber attacks happened out of the blue, taking you by surprise, and prompting you to take action to protect Canada and Canadians?

[Scott Jones]

The one thing with cybersecurity is that it's a constantly changing environment. I would say that in this last year we've seen a large number of changes in the environment, and some of the things [Technical difficulty—Editor] the SolarWinds incident, for example. Also, product vulnerabilities have been coming out fast. On one hand, every vulnerability that's found is a vulnerability that's no longer available to an adversary in the future, but on the other hand it requires a prompt cybersecurity response.

The key issues that we've been working on are how to get people to respond quickly when those come out, but also to work with partners, whether it be in the health sector to strengthen them long-term—

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

I'm sorry, Mr. Jones. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Mr. Dubourg.

We will now continue with Mr. Bergeron for two and a half minutes.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

At the 2018 G7 summit in the Charlevoix region, it was decided that Canada would coordinate the G7 rapid response mechanism. At the same time, in its departmental plan 2021-2022, Global Affairs Canada states that it will coordinate “responses to foreign interference and hostile activities by state actors, economic-based threats to national security, international crime and terrorism, weapons proliferation, and regional and local security crises.”

Can you tell us what this rapid response mechanism is, whether it is in place, and whether it is effective in ensuring a G7 response to all of these interferences and threats, as departmental plan 2021-2022 states?

[Daniel Costello]

I think that's a question for me, since it falls under my responsibilities at Global Affairs. Thank you for your question.

Yes, this mechanism has been put in place and is very successful. We would certainly like to continue to improve it, and it is very important to do so because we are increasingly faced with misinformation. The trends and tactics of our adversaries are constantly changing and developing very quickly and they are very complex.

The mechanism calls on the G7 network, which has been joined by other partners, and a national network that includes partners and experts from within the federal government, but also from outside. We are working together to improve our capacity and to better understand and counter this wide range of foreign interference and encroachment. Sometimes, a collective response from the allies is possible. This effort to increase our capabilities and our understanding of everything that's happening in cyberspace is very much appreciated by our allies and is a great accomplishment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

You have seven seconds left.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Mr. Chair, let me just very quickly say that, in 2018, in Mr. Costello's opinion, we were not properly assessing the changes that had taken place in the People's Republic of China. So how are we able to coordinate the rapid response mechanism, if we don't have a good grasp of the changes that are taking place internationally?

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Mr. Bergeron, that's certainly more than seven seconds, but thank you very much.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you for your generosity.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Mr. Harris, we'll go over to you for two and a half minutes.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Chair.

I have a question that I think Mr. Epp could answer in his capacity as the director general of the North Asia and Oceania bureau.

There's a concern recently—and for some time of course, generally speaking—about the People's Republic of China's intentions towards Taiwan. Lately there seems to be what might be called sabre-rattling.

How realistic is it that China could consider something as drastic as an invasion of Taiwan? What would be the consequences of such an action for Canada and the rest of the world?

[Weldon Epp]

This is an issue that the Government of Canada has been consistent in conveying to both sides of the Taiwan Strait. Whatever the differences and the different perspectives, any solution to the tensions across the strait needs to receive the support of people on both sides of the strait. What we've seen in recent months is quite concerning, and we have at all opportunities raised our concerns about the increase in kinetic activity that pushes the boundaries of the current status quo across the Taiwan Strait.

The question is speculative, and you'll appreciate that I'm not going to speculate on the consequences of a hypothetical, but it's a grave concern not only to Canada and like-minded countries, but to many of our partners in the region—many of the neighbours. The PRC and countries like Canada around the world should look at dialogue and opportunities to encourage both sides of the strait to seek a peaceful resolution to the long-standing issue.

Canada will continue to speak out for Taiwan's inclusion in international fora where statehood is not an issue and where all people should be represented. The government has been very clear on that with respect to the WHO, the ICAO and other fora. It's very important under the kind of scenario we're seeing, where limits are being tested, that we continue to make it clear to both the people of Taiwan and the people of China that, again, any resolution to the tensions in the strait has to be found through peaceful means.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you very much. That concludes the time for Mr. Harris.

We'll now go to Mr. Chong for five minutes.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My questions are for Mr. Epp. I'm just following up on his most recent response.

Are you saying, Mr. Epp, that the Government of Canada's position is that Taiwan should participate at next month's World Health Assembly meeting?

[Weldon Epp]

Canada has consistently called for the opportunity for Taiwan to be an observer at meetings and fora such as the WHA, where global common issues are discussed.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you.

The government updated the travel advisory for China on Sunday with some pretty serious warnings about visiting Xinjiang. The department warned that Canadians with familial or ethnic ties to the region could be at risk of arbitrary detention. Would you advise Canadians with ties to Xinjiang against attending the 2022 winter Olympics in Beijing?