Evidence of meeting #28 for Canada-China Relations in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was respect.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Marta Morgan  Deputy Minister, Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Daniel Costello  Assistant Deputy Minister, International Security, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Peter M. German, Q.C.  Barrister and Solicitor, As an Individual

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Geoff Regan

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 28 of the Special Committee on Canada-China Relations. Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, September 23, 2020, the committee is meeting on its study of Canada-China relations.

Pursuant to the motion adopted by the House on January 25, 2021, this meeting is in hybrid format.

I would like to welcome Marc Garneau, Minister of Foreign Affairs.

Thank you for being here this evening, Mr. Garneau.

I'd also like to welcome your officials from the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development, or, as we know it, Global Affairs Canada: Marta Morgan, deputy minister; Daniel Costello, assistant deputy minister, international security; and Weldon Epp, director general, North Asia and Oceania bureau.

Thanks to all of you for being here.

Minister Garneau, please proceed with your opening remarks. You have five minutes.

June 7th, 2021 / 6:35 p.m.

Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount Québec

Liberal

Marc Garneau LiberalMinister of Foreign Affairs

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It is a pleasure to be with you today, Mr. Chair.

China’s increasing authoritarianism and coercive diplomacy are challenges for democracies around the world. All countries are reassessing and realigning their engagement with China, and Canada is no exception.

We are all trying to decide how we can reconcile our trade objectives, our security objectives and our human rights objectives. Given the circumstances, our approach to China is constantly evolving. It is firmly guided by our principles, values and interests, while acknowledging the complexity of our relationship.

China is rapidly becoming a global influence with which all countries must learn to coexist. That means that we must recognize situations in which it is necessary to cooperate with China, for example on global problems like climate change. However, it also means that we are competing with China when it comes to trade and to promoting our values.

It also implies challenging China when human rights are violated or Canadian citizens and interests are jeopardized.

We must continue to work with our partners around the world to protect the rules-based international order and defend human rights and freedoms. Those are fundamental Canadian values that underpin our foreign policy.

Let me be clear. A path to any kind of long-term relationship with China implies the safe return of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor to Canada. Mr. Kovrig and Mr. Spavor have been unlawfully detained for more than 900 days. Bringing them home is and must remain our top priority in our dealings with China, period. Both men received regular visits two weeks ago from consular officials, who remarked on their impressive strength and resilience. We continue to call for their release while pressing China to allow consular access to other Canadian citizens held in that country, namely Mr. Huseyin Celil, so that we can confirm his well-being. We also seek clemency for Robert Schellenberg and for all Canadians facing the death penalty.

Alongside international partners, we continue to call out China for its bad behaviour. We have called on China to put an end to the systematic campaign of repression against Uighurs and other Muslim ethnic minorities in light of mounting evidence of forced labour, political re-education, torture and forced sterilization. We announced sanctions against four officials and one entity for their involvement.

We are also working with allies at the G7 Quad and Five Eyes to condemn China's growing militarization in the East China Sea and the South China Sea, where China claims vast areas, which fuels regional tensions.

China's economic might has emboldened its ambitions and interests beyond the Asia-Pacific region, where it has enjoyed enormous clout for centuries, to span the entire globe, including here in Canada. Growing competition with China and the pervasive use of digital technology forces us to work with other governments, businesses and universities to protect intellectual property and digital infrastructure and even to shield our democratic institutions from foreign interference and election meddling.

Hostile activities by state actors pose strategic long-term threats to Canada. They can undermine our nation's economic, industrial, military and technological advantages. Researchers and innovators, for example, are vulnerable to espionage and hacking.

Last September, the Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry launched the new portal called Safeguarding Your Research, which provides tools and advice to Canadians on how best to protect their intellectual property.

In March, the ministers of Public Safety and Innovation, Science and Industry announced the development of specific risk guidelines to integrate national security considerations into the evaluation and funding of research partnerships.

We are also working with other G7 countries to counter foreign interference, notably through the Canadian initiative called “rapid response mechanism”, which strengthens coordination across the G7 in identifying, preventing and responding to threats to G7 democracies through disinformation.

Unfortunately, we are currently seeing a resurgence in anti-Asian hate, since the beginning of the pandemic, in Canada and around the world.

Canadians of Chinese and Asian heritage are our neighbours, our colleagues, our friends and our family members. They should never feel that they are in danger or threatened because of their origin.

6:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Geoff Regan

Excuse me, Minister, but your five minutes are up. We need to start the first round of questions.

Thank you very much.

I turn now for our first round to Mr. Chong for six minutes, please.

6:40 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Minister, for appearing.

Recently Australia's ambassador to the United States said that the Biden administration is seeking closer research collaboration with its allies and was watching closely how allies like Canada managed China's interference with Canadian universities. He said that Washington will likely rule out research partnerships with universities and maybe even countries that disregard national security concerns.

The U.S. government provides about $50 billion Canadian a year to the National Institutes of Health. A lot of that funding goes to Canadian researchers, compared to about $3 billion from all of Canada's four granting councils.

Minister Champagne said in March that guidelines on research partnerships are forthcoming. When are they going to be released?

6:40 p.m.

Liberal

Marc Garneau Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC

Our government is committed to supporting a research environment that is open and collaborative while also safeguarding our research, national security and economic interests.

Espionage and foreign interference activities by both human and cyber actors pose real threats to Canadian research integrity, intellectual property and business interests. Unlike the previous government, we take these threats seriously. That's why we recently announced that we will be taking additional steps to better integrate national security considerations into the evaluation of federally funded research partnerships. This announcement also builds on the ongoing work of the research security working group that was established in 2018 and brings together government, universities and national security partners.

6:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Thank you, Minister. Do you have any idea on when those guidelines will be forthcoming?

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

Marc Garneau Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC

We are developing those guidelines. I don't have a specific answer on me, but it's a very active file at the moment with Minister Champagne.

6:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Thank you.

President Biden signed an order that bans Americans from investing in a number of Chinese companies with ties to the defence or surveillance technology sectors. The ban applies to about 59 companies, including Huawei. Seeing that the Canadian and American economies are inextricably linked, is the government considering a similar ban?

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

Marc Garneau Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC

I will simply say to your question that we have certainly taken note of the recent announcement concerning, I believe, 59 American potential investors or investors in China. It is something that we're looking at and taking note of, but no decision has been made.

6:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Thank you.

Minister, I have a question about Ambassador Barton. He was recently sent to Washington for secret talks for three weeks in April, rather than using our ambassador in Washington, Kirsten Hillman. This is somewhat puzzling. Some speculate that Ambassador Barton was carrying messages from the Chinese government in Beijing to the Biden administration. Is that true?

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

Marc Garneau Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC

No, it isn't true. Let me clarify that Ambassador Hillman has been extremely engaged, along with Ambassador Barton, who did go to Washington after meeting with me and other officials in Ottawa before going to Washington. Both of them are working, as you know, on the issue of the two Michaels.

6:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Thank you, Minister.

On May 20, the European Parliament froze ratification of the European Union-China Comprehensive Agreement on Investment because of China's sanctions on elected officials. Just several weeks ago, Australia cancelled two state-level belt and road initiatives because of China's threats. As you know, the Biden administration is leading a G7 initiative to create a new infrastructure financing fund to counter the China-led Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank. Will the government now reconsider its participation in the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank?

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

Marc Garneau Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC

At this time, we are not re-evaluating our involvement with the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank, but I will say that our policies with respect to China are continuously evolving.

6:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Okay. Thank you, Minister.

I have a question on the Havana syndrome. Last year, the National Academy of Sciences concluded that directed energy weapons were the likely cause of the Havana syndrome. Canadian diplomats have reported suffering from the Havana syndrome and from unexplained health issues during postings not only to Cuba but also to the People's Republic of China. How many GAC employees have been affected by the Havana syndrome, and are you working with the U.S. State Department and Health Canada on this investigation?

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

Marc Garneau Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC

With respect to the Havana syndrome, we are currently investigating its possible cause. I don't have specific numbers for you. I believe that's probably private information, but yes, some have complained that they have been affected by it. We are currently trying to understand the possible causes of this syndrome.

6:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Are you willing to consider ordering an investigation that culminates in a report, as the U.S. Department of State has recently done?

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

Marc Garneau Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC

At this point, we're just trying to figure out what caused it and we haven't made any specific decisions beyond that.

6:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Thank you.

I have a question regarding China's foreign interference here in Canada. Since the government has come to office in 2015, has the government declared any Chinese diplomats accredited here persona non grata or requested their removal?

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

Marc Garneau Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC

I will turn to my officials and the deputy minister on that. I don't have an answer to that question.

6:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Perhaps while—

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

Marc Garneau Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC

I would turn to Deputy Minister Morgan or Mr. Epp.

6:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Okay. While she's looking that up, maybe I can ask you one more question.

I hope you now can answer the same question I asked a week ago about Mr. Schellenberg and Mr. Celil in the committee of the whole. What was the most recent communication between the government and Mr. Schellenberg and Mr. Celil, and what was the form of that communication?

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

Marc Garneau Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC

The last consular visit to Mr. Schellenberg took place on March 17, and officials are trying to secure another visit in the next few weeks.

With respect to Mr. Celil, as you know, China does not recognize his Canadian citizenship. It has not been possible for us yet to have a consular visit, although we keep trying.

6:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Thank you, Minister.

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Geoff Regan

Thank you, Mr. Chong.

We'll go now to Ms. Yip for six minutes, please.