Canada-China Relations Committee on June 7th, 2021

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

I cannot give you those details, but, as I have already said several times, we are in favour of a thorough examination of the origin of this virus and we support the proposal by President Biden. If we can help in some way, we will do so. This is important for scientific reasons. We have to understand where this virus came from, because it has devastated the planet and caused over three million deaths. I do not need to say more about that; you understand it. However, for scientific reasons, it is important to get to the bottom of things.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

My question was actually whether, at present, the laboratory in Winnipeg is still in contact with the laboratory in Wuhan, or everything has stopped since the incidents we are familiar with.

Are the two laboratories still in contact?

If so, how do our American partners see that?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

That is a question I do not have an answer to, but I think that at this time there are no activities between the laboratory in Winnipeg and the one in China. However, Ms. Hajdu could confirm that.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Perfect.

We often talk about the two Michaels, but do you know how many Canadians are currently imprisoned in China?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

There are more than two. I mentioned Mr. Schellenberg and Mr. Celil today. There are others as well. I am going to turn to my...

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Excuse me, but I do not have a lot of time left, Minister. I can tell you that 118 Canadians are being held prisoner in China at present.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

I know there are others.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Your colleagueMs. Ng answered a written question, and there are 118 Canadians imprisoned in China.

We are familiar with the problems that the incarceration of the two Michaels is causing us, but, since we have 116 other Canadians imprisoned in China, how can we foresee an end to the negotiations concerning Huawei, for example?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

The decision relating to 5G technology—I assume that is in fact what you are talking about—is a matter we are currently considering. The most important thing for us is to have access to 5G technology, which is going to open all sorts of doors. However, we want to do this with the knowledge that we will be protecting our telecommunication systems.

That is what we are currently looking at. Whether it is one company or another, we have to be absolutely certain that we will not be exposing ourselves to...

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you very much. Forgive me for interrupting you.

Mr. Dubourg, you now have the floor for five minutes.

[Emmanuel Dubourg, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am very pleased to see you this afternoon at the Special Committee on Canada-China Relations, Minister. I would also like to welcome the officials who are with you and thank them for their services.

Earlier, my colleague Ms. Yip asked you some questions. I would like to come back to two of them in particular.

First, Ms. Yip said that the China of 2016 was not the China of 2021, and that Canada's approach needed to evolve with an evolving China.

Can you tell us more about the approach that Canada has adopted in dealing with China?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Thank you very much for the question. I had started to answer, but I did not have enough time.

Yes, China is evolving and has changed since 2016. We have to change the approach we take to China. We have to take what I call the four "Cs" approach.

We have to coexist with China and sometimes cooperate with it, for example when it comes to climate change, which affects us all worldwide. I will take this opportunity to give you an example. Recently, we renegotiated an agreement with China regarding commercial flights between our two countries. That is an area in which we have to cooperate.

There is also the competition aspect. Obviously, we want to sell our products on the international markets, as does China.

On the other hand, we sometimes have to criticize China. That is absolutely essential, and we do it. We have done it on the subject of the treatment of the Uighurs, on what is happening in Hong Kong, and on the arbitrary detention of the two Michaels.

We have also criticized China's aggressive position in the South China Sea and toward Taiwan. We do not hesitate to speak frankly to China when it is necessary.

I would like to mention another important point. Today, we work multilaterally instead of speaking directly with China. We do this on a regular basis. We often take unanimous positions within the Five Eyes, the G7 and other multilateral forums. This makes the positions we take more effective.

[Emmanuel Dubourg, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

I really like the analogy you use for the four Cs concerning China, whose name begins with a C. You are taking action on all fronts, and that's good.

The other question you were asked is about the two Michaels. They have been over there for 900 days. That's nearly three years.

Are you still in touch with the parents of the two Michaels? Do you continue to provide them with consular services? We are really worried, as this arbitrary detention has been extremely long.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Thank you for asking this question, which is not asked often.

The answer is yes. I am in regular contact with their families. In Michael Spavor's case, I am in contact with his father, Stan, his brother, Paul, and his two sisters. I am in contact with all four of them. The same goes for Michael Kovrig.

I would say that this is probably my most difficult task. I report to them on the situation. We have consular access, and the families really want to know how things are going. They actually mostly want to know whether progress has been made in terms of our efforts to get them released.

Those conversations can be difficult because, as you know, the two Michaels have been in prison for more than 900 days. Maintaining this contact is absolutely essential. They are suffering a great deal. I would also say that many Canadians are suffering, as we have lost two citizens who are very dear to us.

[Emmanuel Dubourg, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Thank you.

As I don't have much time left, I will ask you a question about your relationship with the United States. You used to be an astronaut, and so you have privileged contacts with them.

What kind of a relationship would you say you have with the U.S. Secretary of State Mr. Blinken and the Biden administration?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

I would say that relationship is excellent. Mr. Blinken and I hit it off. He speaks French very well, as he went to high school in Paris in his youth. So we often speak in French, and we have a very good relationship.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you very much, Mr. Dubourg.

Mr. Bergeron, go ahead for two and a half minutes.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, I fully appreciate what you said about how difficult it is to talk to the two Michaels' families. As a former Quebec minister of public security, I had to talk to parents and spouses of police officers who died in service a few times. I must say that those are very difficult moments, but they are particularly rewarding.

As my colleague Mr. Paul‑Hus said a few minutes ago, we learned in The Globe and Mail that Global Affairs Canada reportedly issued an opinion that went against the Department of National Defence's decision to cancel joint exercises planned between China's People's Liberation Army and the Canadian Armed Forces on a base in Ontario. We heard the point of view of the minister and his officials when they appeared.

Why did you issue a contrary opinion when it was logical to cancel those exercises?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

We have always been clear: we do not train with the Chinese army.

The relationship between Canada and China intensified after the Honourable Rob Nicholson, Conservative Minister of National Defence, signed the cooperation plan initiative in 2013. That is how all this began.

The last time the Canadian Armed Forces participated in bilateral military training exercises with China was in 2018. No bilateral military training with China has been carried out or planned since then, and no training is planned for the future.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

I would like you to comment on the contrary opinion Global Affairs Canada reportedly issued concerning the Department of National Defence's decision to cancel those exercises.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

I am not familiar with the details of that contrary opinion. Perhaps I could turn to my colleague, but you are telling me something new.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Am I really telling you something new?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Yes you are, Mr. Bergeron.

Deputy Minister Morgan, can you shed some light on this issue?

[Marta Morgan]

Yes, I can do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Unfortunately we don't have time, as the 10 and a half minutes are up.